to think Mumsnet should delete posts in which women are called cis

[violetsarentblue]

I (and I imagine quite a lot of women on here) are fed up with being referred to as cis. I find the term deeply insulting.
I'm a woman and prefer to be addressed as a 'woman', not a cis woman.

I noticed MN are quick to delete posts where transgender people are called 'he' instead of 'she', because that group of people find the term insulting and MN don't want to offend.

Generally we delete posts in which people persistently refuse to refer to people by the pronoun (he/she; him/her) by which they’ve asked to be referred, out of respect for that individual’s wishes.

Please - could we have the same depth of consideration for our wishes?

Thank you.

I don't think it is appropriate that those born another sex and socialized as a different gender get to tell me what my gender is or label me thanks.

Absolutely that. Totally fed up with it all.

But honestly how often (apart from the last seemingly endless month or so) has the term 'cis' been used to describe a woman on MN?

Once people get bored of posting eleventy million threads on the subject of transgender people, the term will probably all but disappear.

On the odd occasion it pops up and someone doesn't like being called a cis woman, they can report.

HQ have said they'll delete it.

Why all these extra names and labels?
Isn't the point of changing your gender that you are "now" a woman or a man. Why would you need to advertise that you transitioned? Or that you didn't?

Shouldn't it be about what particular gender you are at this very moment in time?

It's over complicating the issue.

The OP used ciswoman as her example but a later post used cisgender woman. I think if people want to have debates they should use the latter.
Personally the abundance of labelling is for me divisive but I am not in a position where I am fighting to be accepted.

I am a woman, not a cis woman.

I was born female with xx chromosomes, therefore I am a woman.

I reject the term cis. It's not needed to describe a born woman, that word is woman.

I think that the anxiety of those who think that trans people are forcing women into traditional gender norms is misplaced. I know a few trans and genderqueer people, including one person who lives completely gender neutral. They are the people who are most likely to question and reject gender norms and stereotypes out of everyone I know. I really do not think that there is a wing of the trans lobby that is in favour of stricter gender norms. In practice the opposite is true. The idea is that everyone can pick their own gender identity and that in future there won't be just two genders but many. I'm a cis woman - in that I am biologically female and identify socially as a woman. That doesn't mean that I embrace all aspects of femininity - but it does mean I reserve the right to retain my female gender identity (which as far as I'm concerned has nothing to do with my genitals) and the right to define that identity my own terms. To the extent that I find the idea that my gender identity is inextricably tied to my genitals/reproductive function rather than being something that I am in charge worrying, I find the term cis empowering not limiting.

So, for hundreds (thousands?) of years, men were called men and women were called women. Now, some men want to be called women, so women should have to call themselves something else?

Yeah, fuck that.

think that the anxiety of those who think that trans people are forcing women into traditional gender norms is misplaced. I know a few trans and genderqueer people, including one person who lives completely gender neutral. They are the people who are most likely to question and reject gender norms and stereotypes out of everyone I know.

But without gender norms and stereotypes, how do you know as what gender someone identifies, if any?

Do you ask everyone which pronouns they want to be used? And if so, is it not difficult to keep in mind that this person who wears makeup and dresses and high heels is a "he" and the other one who looks almost the same is a "she"?

I was born female and assigned second-class citizen at birth. Can't say I am happy with that. So, I do not want to be called "cis".

Never heard of cis until about a month ago. And then only on here. Is there a similar push to say cis men?

I'm a woman, not a ciswomam. Referring to me as something I'm not, to make someone else comfortable, is wrong and insulting.

I'm not even 'cis' anyway, pisses me off that just because I'm not putting a skirt over my dick or a suit over my tits I'm referred to as 'cis'.

And when I say what I do "identify" as, I'm told that I'm silencing trans people.

FFS. Have never heard the term cis until this thread and frankly it's fucking ridiculous. Why the extra labels and boxes to put people in?

I'm a woman not a cis-woman

Nobody in the actual real world uses this term about women. It's a non-problem. I have a friend who is transitioning and believe me the shit she deals with is far far uglier than using non pc or offensive terminology.

^^ well, this I suppose.

I had a 40 minute lecture the other day on such issues by my 14 year old son, but at the end of the day I'm in the 'bottle of laxative .... can of polish' brigade in terms of how worked up I am prepared to get.

Surely the only people who use the term 'cis' are trans people, as they're really the only ones who routinely have to differentiate.

Meanwhile, out in the wider world, no-one actually uses it; certainly not so-called cis-women / cis-men.

X-posted.

Does anyone talk like this in RL? if i heard someone was a cis woman id think they worked for co op inurance

If you want to identify as a MAN or a WOMAN I will refer to you as such and introduce you to people as such. I refuse, however, to use extra unnecessary terms like trans or cis to further categorise a person.

Call me cis anything and I'll be very pissed off as to me it's bloody fucking disrespectful. I identify as plain old WOMAN nothing else!

I don't think that MN should ban cis. There are people who think they are cis. There's a couple on this thread.

The point is that the vast majority of people don't identify as cis and it is rude to assume that everyone is cis or trans. It is like assuming everyone is a Christian or a Hindu. Most people are neither.

And you can't ban people making rude and stupid remarks.

I just think people sound ridiculous and a bit insane when they call strangers cis, just as I would if people kept insisting we were all Christians, despite knowing nothing about us.

Brioche yep would presume work related too

I came across Cis Woman as a term when watching " I am Cait" so the term was broadcast to millions across the world.

I was born female and assigned second-class citizen at birth. Can't say I am happy with that. So, I do not want to be called "cis".

But if you don't want to identify as having a female gender of course you don't have to! And if you don't, you're not cis. The point is that it's within your power to choose your gender.

And I think that most proponents of the word cis are in favour of not assuming anything about people's gender identity and checking what any give individual's preference is before assigning a pronoun or a term like cis. I'd point out that in most of life we don't receive this courtesy - no one ever asks which pronoun we prefer, they just make a decision about our gender.

If a person wants to specifically identify themselves as a ciswoman, I am happy to call them that. Just like I would use a transgender person's preferred pronoun.

However, I am biologically a woman, or female if you prefer. I'm not particularly "feminine", and dislike quite a lot of the gender stereotypes that a patriarchal society have tried to impose on me, as a second class citizen. If I could have a fiver for every time someone has made a wrong assumption about who I was, just because I was the female, then I could probably retire. I disliked growing up subject to sexual discrimination and sexual harassment. And I'm afraid that someone else trying to define my sex or gender and add another pigeon hole irritates me intensely.

I am happy to support people undergoing, or who have undergone, transition. But not at the cost of some very hard won freedoms that women have fought for very hard. And the right to define our identity is, ironically, one that they ought to appreciate in someone else, as it is so much of their own fight. But not to the detriment of people who were born considered second class. ie women

It's an expression that means "your internal sense of gender identity matches the sex of your body at birth". This is simply not the case for me. Gender is a social construct that has always felt profoundly wrong and insulting to me, in terms of the behaviour that is expected of me as a result of my assigned gender. In that sense I am not cis, and just because I have become accustomed to walking around with a woman's name and wearing dresses doesn't mean that I am comfortable with other wider associations and demeaning implications of femininity and my position in society, particularly vis a vis stupid men who adopt an instinctive position of patronising superiority towards me; and my rejection of it is socially problematic and usually punished; alternatlvely my sometime attempted docility towards it results in psychological back lash and mental health fallout

This.

As it is my genitals have no bearing on my personality and my 'gender' is the box I've been pushing against for as long as I've been aware of it. I've had enough of labels.

And this.