to think Mumsnet should delete posts in which women are called cis

[violetsarentblue]

I (and I imagine quite a lot of women on here) are fed up with being referred to as cis. I find the term deeply insulting.
I'm a woman and prefer to be addressed as a 'woman', not a cis woman.

I noticed MN are quick to delete posts where transgender people are called 'he' instead of 'she', because that group of people find the term insulting and MN don't want to offend.

Generally we delete posts in which people persistently refuse to refer to people by the pronoun (he/she; him/her) by which they’ve asked to be referred, out of respect for that individual’s wishes.

Please - could we have the same depth of consideration for our wishes?

Thank you.

What the fuck has FGM (which is clearly wrong) got to do with someone being transgender? From what Venus said, some transactivists are as barking as some of the people on this thread. And as for the phrase 'actual women'. I am honestly not sure where you are going with that VestalVirgin and tbh, I don't want to know.

That site's not biased to your viewpoint at all then isshoes?

Would it be a sensible idea to gather together all of the links covering all of these questions into one place?

For example:

All the links showing trans activists telling people not to say FGM, saying that men producing sperm are pregnant, saying not to call abortion a women's issue etc.

The links explaining what sex is, what gender is.

The links showing that most children diagnosed with GID grow up to not be trans but to be gay,

The links showing that offending rates for trans women are the same for trans women as for other males.

The links showing that there is no consensus on what the best treatments are for trans people.

Because it seems like these threads are a lot of work for people to keep finding and explaining the same stuff.

I find it totally unbelievable that an adult in the UK in 2015 does not understand what biological sex is.

I don't believe ishhoes or 99.9% of TAs believes that MTTs are female or FTTs are male. I think she believes it is compassionate to pretend it is true and transphobic not to pretend.

Agree. Wholeheartedly. YADNBU

that is why matters such as prison assignment are complex

Actually, that is why it is so simple as to keep it segregated by sex. So if you have a penis, you go to a men's prison.

If you have a vagina, or neovagina, you go to a woman's prison.

Perhaps we should call them penis and vagina prisons instead of men's and women's.

Yes, almond, I think that would be a great idea. FWIW, I personally would not like to be referred to as 'cis' for most of the reasons already given. Gender for me is something imposed, something performed, but nothing I experience as an innate part of my self.

Why not just abolish the concept of gender?

Then you have men with penises and women with vaginas, all dressing and behaving exactly as they wish, without stereotype.

If there are then people who feel that they are in the wrong body, e.g. Shouldn't have a penis, then at least it hopefully wouldn't be down to nurture and gender stereotypes.

I'm sure if certain transactivists could bring themselves to think about women, they would be quite aware that FGM is wrong. But the thing is, they don't give a shit. They don't want to talk about anything that is "exclusionary" to them. And cutting up women's genitals because of a patriarchal tradition? Well feminism shouldn't discuss that as it makes them feel "othered". It's a "cis-sexist" term, and feminism should centre trans women. There's rather a long thread about it if you search. You might find it rather enlightening.

Vestal - don't know what you're on about.

Venus - yes, hence my reference to several other sites on this thread alone. Still doesn't answer the question - show me where this discussion about FGM happened. And if the site I linked to was too biased for you, how about the NHS 'Once you have completed your social gender role transition and you and your care team feels you are ready, you may decide to have surgery to permanently alter your sex.'

FloraFox - and I think that is a load of absolute bollocks.

Slugs - Yes I do. Because who is anyone else to tell them what gender they are?

Is it bollocks? Do you think a MTT is female?

On FGM and cissexism: elegantgatheringofwhitesnows.com/?p=2069

Removing primary sex organs is altering your sex but it is not changing your sex.

If you mean male to female transsexuals then yes I do.

How about you google it, isshoes? Or use the search facility to find the mumsnet thread about transactivists saying FGM is "cis sexist"? I couldn't care less what some cobbled together fact sheet on the NHS website says, you can't actually change sex. Anything else? Or is that all you've got?

What are their characteristics that make them female?

Thanks Empress, cross post!

More on FGM and 'cissexism' www.reddit.com/r/SRSDiscussion/comments/28dex9/is_there_a_less_cissexist_way_of_referring_to_fgm/

'Women's foreskins'

Thanks for that link Empress. So as I said, one individual. I wonder how many examples of transphobic abuse I could find online.

I think some kind of conflation is happening here.

You cannot change which sex you are. A male human cannot become a female human.

You can of course alter some of your own sex characteristics. I can become pregnant. I can begin or cease breastfeeding. I could surgically alter my genitals. Indeed I have done all these things. My vagina was sewn back together twice after childbirth. But none of these alterations actually change which sex I am. In the same way when trans people surgically alter their genitals they are not changing which sex they are, but they are altering their sex characteristics.

Just as we may alter our human bodies in many ways, but we are still human.

Isshoes, I am sure you can find thousands of examples of transphobic abuse.

Which I am sure would be useful, if you were to enter into a debate as to whether or not transphobia exists with the tiny minority of people who believe it doesn't.

But I don't see the relevance to this thread.