Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to think Mumsnet should delete posts in which women are called cis

999 replies

violetsarentblue · 17/11/2015 22:21

I (and I imagine quite a lot of women on here) are fed up with being referred to as cis. I find the term deeply insulting.
I'm a woman and prefer to be addressed as a 'woman', not a cis woman.

I noticed MN are quick to delete posts where transgender people are called 'he' instead of 'she', because that group of people find the term insulting and MN don't want to offend.

Generally we delete posts in which people persistently refuse to refer to people by the pronoun (he/she; him/her) by which they’ve asked to be referred, out of respect for that individual’s wishes.

Please - could we have the same depth of consideration for our wishes?

Thank you.

OP posts:
Hereisnownotthen · 18/11/2015 18:56

I went on equality training where we were told to use the terms that people felt applied to them but also to use Cis
And that is the problem with Cis. Unlike other lgbt terms it isn't one that the group it is applied to asked for or identified with, it has been invented by another group to suit them and their agenda, and the rest of womanhood are being asked to put up with it.

Original poster
violetsarentblue · 18/11/2015 19:02

I went on equality training where we were told to use the terms that people felt applied to them but also to use Cis

Proof that this term IS used in the real world.

OP posts:
citybushisland · 18/11/2015 19:09

It's just that your post seemed to be a response to SmashingTurnips' posts, but in your post you seem to use sex and gender almost interchangeably and you aren't actually saying what SmashingTurnips is saying at all.

I wasn't responding to SmashingTurnip, I was making my own point, but saying I liked the way SmashingTurnip expressed their point, sorry it wasn't clear, but in my defense I did say they were more coherent than me.

hiddenhome2 · 18/11/2015 19:13

I went on equality training where we were told to use the terms that people felt applied to them but also to use Cis
And that is the problem with Cis. Unlike other lgbt terms it isn't one that the group it is applied to asked for or identified with, it has been invented by another group to suit them and their agenda, and the rest of womanhood are being asked to put up with it.

Great, another 'term' for us, along with: bitches, cows, cunts, slags and hoes Hmm

If someone told me I was 'cis' to my face they'd end up having theirs fucking rearranged Hmm

Flashbangandgone · 18/11/2015 19:38

I'm not sure what the issue is... My understanding is that 'cis' is an adjective to describe women who are not LGBT. In the appropriate context why can't it be used?

jorahmormont · 18/11/2015 19:39

I think that's what a lot of trans people forget. Them trampling over our feelings and calling us 'cis' is exactly the same as us calling them 'ladyboys'. If they want to be called by a certain name, they have to show that respect in return.

Hereisnownotthen · 18/11/2015 19:51

Flash, no it is not used to describe people who are not lgbt. You can be gay and still regarded as Cis. It is used to differentiate women from trans women. But we already have a term for that: it is woman. And Cis is often used when women are being referred to in aggressive and insulting terms. In real life application it is not merely a neutral descriptive term.

Synyster · 18/11/2015 19:51

Op you misunderstood my post.
I was objecting to mn hq link to other thread, they have missed the point of this threqd imo

Hereisnownotthen · 18/11/2015 19:52

Or men from trans men but the debate is often around women.

EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 18/11/2015 20:00

'Cis' is an adjective to describe women who are not LGBT

Please don't lump lesbians in with the transactivists. I seem to be saying this a lot atm but we are really, really not the same. I'm lesbian and I think Cis is pernicious bollocks.

BeyondThirty · 18/11/2015 20:23

i put a pretty picture in my cissplaining post and everything :(

BeyondThirty · 18/11/2015 20:34

Ps. yes, one more "cis means not lgbt" and i think we may have to start ANOTHER thread, specifically about that!!! Grin

HermioneWeasley · 18/11/2015 20:36

We already have a perfectly good term to describe women who aren't TW. It's........women.

ZedWoman · 18/11/2015 20:42

BeyondThirty I thought your explanation was very good. Wink Wink

BeyondThirty · 18/11/2015 20:52

Haha, thank you zed Grin

MiaowTheCat · 18/11/2015 20:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notquiteruralbliss · 18/11/2015 21:04

As a CIS neurotypical woman, I really can't be arsed to be bothered by labels. Though I do think that labelling should be opt in (choose a label that you feel represents you) rather than opt out.

Pangurban1 · 18/11/2015 21:05

I think Cis tagged onto woman is a misogynistic term.

Sallyingforth · 18/11/2015 21:23

Proof that this term IS used in the real world.

Lots of fucking stupid offensive things are said and done in the real world.
Calling someone a 'ciswoman' to suit someone else's agenda is one of them.

SmillasSenseOfSnow · 18/11/2015 21:29

Your explanation was very good, BeyondThirty!

Didactylos' post, on the other hand, brought far too much of last semester's revision period screaming back to me. As far as I am concerned, enantiomers and the like no longer exist until and unless they can prove themselves to be especially relevant/essential to the rest of my course...

ZedWoman · 18/11/2015 21:49

Enantiomers - now there's a case of smoke and mirrors.

toomuchtooold · 18/11/2015 22:01

I'm tragically late to this discussion but here's my 2p anyway. When I was younger I was fairly trans-supportive within being politically active on the LGBT scene. As a butch woman I wondered though whether there wasn't a bit of a disconnect between them and people like me - the idea of transitioning supports the binary, sex=gender view - that with the exception of the few trans people there are, who need surgery, everyone else fits fairly neatly into the gender boxes assigned to them by their sex. The whole cis thing certainly plays into that. But I figured live and let live. And I was cool with using the pronouns of choice, and I was cool with the idea of trans women in female only spaces, I guess because the trans women I know are all nice people.

But we're at the point now where I've seen people being called transphobic for wanting to label issues relating to conception and pregnancy as "women's issues". I understand the logic of this - if transwomen are real women, then having a uterus isn't an essential part of being a woman and therefore uteruses aren't a "women's issue". I suppose we could do the circumlocution and stop using woman as a name for "person with a uterus" but most of the oppression women face is because of being in possession of a uterus, specially these days, when nobody really thinks that women are less able than men at work - it's only when you try and get contraception, or an abortion, or fertility treatment, or when you get pregnant and have a baby, or when you have a female specific illness - that you say to yourself, why am I suddenly being treated like shit? Why are these services all so badly funded? Why are people talking to me like I'm stupid? And in any case, "those of us with uteruses who are fighting for quality for our class" - why should we have to move out of the feminist house, why do we need to surrender the name and the movement to a bunch of people who joined it in the last 10 years when it's been going for the last 100? I find it deeply ironic that trans activists have basically walked up to feminism's front door and went "that's not feminism, let me explain you what feminism is" and then demanded that feminism ditches the concerns of 99% of feminist women in favour of their own. For people who think they fit better in the feminine gender, that's very stereotypically male behaviour.

EmpressKnowsWhereHerTowelIs · 18/11/2015 22:04

Welcome to the conversation, toomuch Wine

BeyondThirty · 18/11/2015 22:09

How did i miss the enantiomers post!? Shock
That is genious!!

Didactylos · 18/11/2015 22:26

sorry, was being a bit tongue in cheek with that post, Blush but it rings true to me the positions are so diametrically opposed that its hard to reconcile

I always felt that trans people would be natural allies of feminists and women feeling that their socially approved gender roles were artificially constraining: It seemed obvious that if so many people found the boxes of gender/how a man or woman behaves restrictive then we should look at getting rid of the boxes all together so that individuals could feel comfortable in the role and behaviour that suits them best. But what seems to be happening instead is that to transition, to move from x to y there have to be rigid boxes and demarcating lines between them, and thus gender roles and their boxes are being even more rigidly enforced
while the boundaries of safe spaces for women (where we are segregated on biological sex rather than gender) are being massively blurred

Just for you Smilla, I shall change my self description (sorry about the flashbacks)

Didactylos - racemic mixture who does not believe in enantiopure boxes