Organ donation should be opt out.

[m1nniedriver]

Just that really. If people have strong feelings on the matter then they are free to opt out, I really fail to see the issue with it.

then someone who was a registered donor should have priority
What if the other has a dependant child? Or if they are part of a global team leading cures for cancer? Or donate all of their salary to charity?

You're making a moral judgement. That has no place in the altruistic world of organ donation, IMO.

freezing no, because your alive and have the ability to make that choice, at the time you can't force a living person to donate their bone marrow donating your organs after brain death is not a choice you can make at the time. It has to be made before the event, an opt out system.

you can't force a living person to donate their bone marrow

What if the person doesn't say No?

Maid, in what possible way could that ever happen?

John Sorry, I've been banging away! Which post are you referring to?

Oh sorry, the one immediately above

Sedated?

What about in cases of someone being brain dead on life support but with a normal healthy bone marrow? What then? That person can't opt out OR in?

*you can't force a living person to donate their bone marrow

What if the person doesn't say No?*

What a strange argument so anyone brought into a hospital and resuscitated without consent has had their rights violated? It's irrelevant to the argument about organ donation and an opt out system.

What a strange argument
A lot of the debate on this issue pushes into thought experiment territory.

I'm not here to suggest scenarios where something might practically happen. I'm asking you if someone hasn't said No to donating bone marrow, would you take it?

In any other circumstance, if you take something from me without my express consent, I haven't 'donated' it and I am not a donor. You can presume as much as you like but you and I will know you do not have my consent.
You have stolen it and you are a thief. Or a rapist.

So, 'unregistered organ donor' is a euphemism for 'person whose body we violated and whose organs we stole without their consent'. Let's not salve our consciences by pretending such organs were 'donated'.

Just so we're clear.

I'm quite happy that the status quo currently remains with presuming absolutely nothing about me. I don't need to state explicitly on a designated form "you may not rape me. You may not steal from me" because the law thankfully assumes this to be the default position.

That's the thing about consent isn't it? If it isn't freely given, you haven't got it.

I've thought about this a lot, as someone I love is alive today because of a donor, and while we were waiting for an organ to become available, I found myself in the horrible position of wanting someone to die :-(

I think that organ donation should be opt-in, and that rather than following the example of Wales, we should look to Spain. Spain has an opt-in system and extremely high levels of consent from families. Organ donation campaigns are very successful, and there is a lot more specialist nursing care helping bereaved families through their decision and through the donation process.

Actually, thinking about this a bit more I'm going to change my mind and say that an opt in system is probably the only one that's practically workable. However the ease with which relatives can veto someone's clearly expressed wishes should be reviewed.

I understand that at present medical staff can only bring up organ donation with relatives if they have reason to believe the patient was on the register. Happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood.

If the opt-out actually meant you were explicitly refusing consent, so medical staff couldn't even bring up the idea, I think I would be more keen on it. The presumption would be that in any and every case where the patient hasn't opted out, the next of kin can be approached about organ donation.

My family is very much in favour of donation; we don't believe we need our bodies after death and aren't squeamish about going into a coffin with bits missing. DH knows if he had the opportunity to donate my organs and didn't, he'd be doing me a disservice.

Still, I think presumed consent is a really slippery slope.

I just checked, and got it a bit wrong. There is presumed consent in Spain, but in practise, the family have give actual consent. And the transplant coordinator is a surgeon rather than a nurse.

What a strange argument
A lot of the debate on this issue pushes into thought experiment territory.

I'm not here to suggest scenarios where something might practically happen. I'm asking you if someone hasn't said No to donating bone marrow, would you take it?

Working on the presumption that the person isn't dead then obviously I wouldn't take it why would we need an opt out system for living people? We wouldn't.

My body is mine, the presumption is that it must always remain mine. The default should never be that it belongs to somebody else.

When you're dead, you don't exist. How can a non-existent person own anything? At best your body could belong to your estate, which I suppose is effectively a sort of trust.

My dsis was a transplantee (twice over), who died waiting for a liver. She was opposed to the idea of opt-out as she believed that such a system risked alienating potential donors.

She also believed strongly that an organ donation isn't some kind of reward for good behaviour and should not, therefore, be linked with willingness to donate. I should add that she'd always carried a donor card (when organ transplants were simply something that happened to other people), a fact which she believed helped her come to terms with accepting an organ.

I'm very pro-organ donation; my aunt's only alive today having received donated organs, and I can't think of a person in my family who wouldn't consent to donating their next of kins' organs if the situation arose.

In principle I agree that an opt out scenario would be great, but in practice I think there are too many potential problems/grey areas; I think my grieving family members should be allowed to have the final say - even if they're saying something I would have disagreed with - they're the ones who have to live with it; not me. Also, if it were an opt out system, who would pick what the organs were used for - would it only be for transplants and thus going to a recipient in need? Would they be given to scientists for research purposes? Would they be given to medical students for educational purposes? Would it be everything that could be harvested? Would it only be organs or could an argument later be made for extracting sperm/eggs? Unlikely, but once the precedent has been set that the next of kin is removed from their role as advocate for the recently deceased, the last moment of bodily autonomy is removed.

Why would anyone be bothered about their organs being used by someone else after their death? Unless you're planning on being mummified, pickled or frozen, your organs are going to be incinerated or eaten by worms. Do the worms have to see a consent form?

Opt-out is clearly the best way forwards. And if you don't like it, opt out.

Why would anyone be bothered about their organs being used by someone else after their death?

and that was the thinking of the doctors that removed my mums brothers organs when he died at 3 months.

He didn't need them. Fuck the people left behind. Wether is logical or not, my nana was devastated that her sons organs had been removed without her consent.

I am very pro organ donation.

When my son died I donated his organs.

I chose that, in fact I asked them before I was approached.

The thought that my boy could have died and his organs could have been taken without my consent makes my blood run cold.

In theory it would be a great system, lots more organs, lots more lives saved.

In practice I think it would be very difficult. The last choices about our children/spouses/parents should be made by us, not the state imo.

I think the last choice about what happens to your body should be yours, if you are an adult able to give consent. not your spouses, not your parents, not your children. Hopefully as a society we can feel more able to discuss these things and respect our loved ones wishes, even if those wishes are not what we would choose for ourselves.

But Enjolrass, your brother was a baby. There was no consent or chance of opting-in or out by him, so what the hospital did was wrong on every level.

But for adults? When you're dead, you're dead. And relatives over-riding your wishes is morally indefensible in my opinion.

Thank you Elsa