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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Organ donation should be opt out.

274 replies

m1nniedriver · 17/11/2015 15:12

Just that really. If people have strong feelings on the matter then they are free to opt out, I really fail to see the issue with it.

OP posts:
MrEverything · 20/11/2015 14:34

It's worrying that some people, especially medical professionals, misunderstand consent especially where capacity is in question. If you have a head injury aged 15, lose capacity to make a decision about medical treatment and die as an adult, it is not ok to remove organs and presume consent because they didn't opt out. They can't bloody opt out if they don't know how! If a healthcare professional can't see this, then that's worrying!

MrEverything · 20/11/2015 14:37

I am very pro organ donation. I am anti presumed consent because there are people out there who do not have the capacity to consent to this medical procedure.

m1nniedriver · 20/11/2015 16:31

What medical professionals are you speaking about mreverything?

If it was aimed at me I fully understand medical consent, I deal with it every day Confused. I never suggested that consent should be pressumed on anyone unable to consent. I haven't seen anyone on this thread say that?

OP posts:
Blondeshavemorefun · 20/11/2015 21:20

i agree there should be an opt register and if not on it then organs to be used

my friends son aged 3 had a new heart and it truely is a gift of life and such an unselfish act

i am happy for anyone to have my organs, i will be dead and if can help anyone else then fab :)

Aussiemum78 · 21/11/2015 00:11

I think if you aren't willing to donate, when you need a kidney you can go at the bottom of the list because you are a selfish jerk.

Ditto if there is a blood shortage and you have no good reason for not donating once a year. That's your choice but I'd rather my blood go to someone more worthwhile in the world first. My blood, my choice!

wannaBe · 21/11/2015 01:45

oh yeah that's just what we want, a health service which provides treatment based on moral judgements rather than actual need. Hmm As much as there might be an argument for opt-out or for relatives consent to be removed, anyone who actually thinks that unless you donate you should not be able to receive is frankly lacking in intelligent thought.

Where exactly does one draw the line at what constitutes deserving? After all, if you don't work then you don't pay tax, so perhaps you shouldn't receive treatment either? after all, you don't give to the nhs so why should you receive treatment? And who's to say that the person at the top of the list is any more morally superior just because they've said they'll donate their organs in the event of their death? They might be a murderer, or a paedophile, or a deadbeat parent. they might have done a million immoral things compared to your one questionable one - one which might not even come to pass given your organs may never be suitable for donation anyway.

After all, saying you will donate your organs doesn't actually mean it will happen, it just means the thought is there. I might state that I will donate £10000000 to charity in the event of my lottery win. Chances are I'll never win the lottery so won't ever be called on to make that donation.

And this is just it. For most people, organ donation is just a thought. "yeah, if I die they can have my organs, no use to me anyway." If people are prepared to actually opt out of giving organs they have almost certainly put far more thought into that process than the ones who just blindly say they'll do it. Who are we to judge whether someone's reasons are valid or not. Just because they're not valid to you doesn't mean they're not valid to them.

Blistory · 21/11/2015 02:32

Opting out of the register doesn't mean that people won't donate.

I'm currently on the register but will opt out if it changes as I believe it should be up to me and my family. They know my views but I'm happy to leave it to them to decide given they will be dealing with my death. I would hope they would agree to donate my organs but if not, I'm sure their reasons will be valid.

The idea that consent is assumed by the state/NHS with an opt out system horrifies me so I'm opting out of THAT, not opting out of organ donation.

Serioussteve · 21/11/2015 02:33

First, for the people who have lost their beloved children, I am very sorry for your loss. A parent should never have to endure this.

An interesting point was once mused to me, in the light of a chat about donations and NOK intervention, that it's a shame (living donor) altruistic kidney donation isn't far more prevalent. After all, we only need one to live, and in cases of kidney disease both get hit. (I understand living donor partial liver transplants are possible now too, although haven't read of any being done altruistically).

AndNowItsSeven · 21/11/2015 03:40

Of course it should be opt out , you don't need bodily autonomy when you are dead that makes no sense.

ForalltheSaints · 21/11/2015 07:27

I would support opt out if I thought there could be a system to make sure you express your view at reasonable intervals (say every five years). The problem that I see is the number of people who never have any contact with the NHS for years on end, or not through their GP at least. Then there will be those such as my uncle who lived abroad for many years, retired back to live in England, and died only a couple of years later. He would probably have been unaware of any opt-out scheme had there been one.

Brioche201 · 21/11/2015 08:09

There needs to be a more joined up way of registering perhaps with the electoral roll? But presumed consent and over riding relatives wishes is immoral IMO

Bumbledumb · 21/11/2015 11:03

Opting out of the register doesn't mean that people won't donate.

I'm currently on the register but will opt out if it changes as I believe it should be up to me and my family. They know my views but I'm happy to leave it to them to decide given they will be dealing with my death. I would hope they would agree to donate my organs but if not, I'm sure their reasons will be valid.

If you die in a traumatic accident, how are you going to make the choice to donate your organs? If the check the registry and find you have opted out, will they even ask your family? Why distress them unnecessarily when you have made your wished clear by opting out?

JCLNE · 21/11/2015 11:22

your ultimate responsibility is to your patient surely. It's a worrying world where relatives can override the wishes of a patient

THIS.

m1nnie I want to be on your ward if I'm ever hospitalised. Wink

MrEverything · 21/11/2015 11:55

"I never suggested that consent should be pressumed on anyone unable to consent. I haven't seen anyone on this thread say that?"

Opt out means presumed consent though. Confused No one has addressed what will happen to those who lack capacity if we do go opt out.

Bumbledumb · 21/11/2015 12:01

No one has addressed what will happen to those who lack capacity if we do go opt out.

By definition all dead people lack the capacity to give consent. The difference with an opt-out system is that the NOK will be asked if they are willing to donate the organs of the deceased, unless the deceased had actively opted out.

Shineyshoes10 · 21/11/2015 12:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

m1nniedriver · 21/11/2015 13:29

Why thank you JCLNE, I work in acute care so I do hope I never see you in the nicest possible way Wink

mreverything id suggest in those situations that NOK/POA etc would make that decision? Not rocket science really, just good old fashioned common sense and a little humanity thrown in.

HTH Confused

OP posts:
WhereDoAllTheCalculatorsGo · 22/11/2015 11:29

This is my award for organ donation from the Order of St John. I received it last month.
Whilst it's great to have a medal, I'd rather it was just the normal accepted thing to donate organs. Education is the key. Talk to your relatives about it so that they don't say no against your wishes.

Organ donation should be opt out.
Pseudonym99 · 22/11/2015 15:01

That Q&A session from Wales has really been soften up. Previously they were saying if relatives refused to donate they would be told they had no right to object, and would have to sign a form acknowledging they were breaking the law. They must be worried about some sort of backlash occurring when the new law starts.

Pseudonym99 · 22/11/2015 15:04

But for those who want their relatives to make the decision for them should they be in the position of potentially becoming a donor, are you aware you can now fill in a form allowing that?

m1nniedriver · 22/11/2015 15:51
Hmm
OP posts:
Pseudonym99 · 22/11/2015 16:35

Hmm?

KnappShappey · 24/11/2015 19:17

WhereDoAll I think you are so right, I just wish we could make it more normal to donate and for people to make an informed decision (either way) and share it with their NOK, surely the way to save shocked and grieving relatives from having to make a choice on the spot out of the blue is to let them know what your wishes are. Even if they have reasons for going against them they would at least be aware of your thoughts on donation.

Fredmitten · 24/11/2015 19:32

I have worked very closely with the legislation on organ donation for years, and know the Welsh Act fairly well too. I could bore on for many many hours on this, but the family member having the final say is very much a pragmatic response to the situation in hand, not what the legislation states. Also, opt out doesn't necessarily mean more organs, but it does tend to start a trend of donation becoming normal when people die in circumstances where donation is possible (most of us don't).

Pseudonym99 · 30/11/2015 14:44

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34932951

Opt out makes no difference.