to not send my girls on this school trip because of my beliefs

[JustGiveMeTwoMinutes]

The trip is to a mosque and the girls (year 3 and 4) have to cover their heads with a scarf, the boys don't have to.

Just to be clear about where I am coming from, this is about a specific practice which I believe is discriminatory and therefore disagree with. I would not choose myself to enter a building that I could only enter if I wore particular clothes but where that requirement was limited to one gender or one group defined by arbitrary characteristics. I would be happy to cover my head as a sign of respect/tradition if everyone entering the building was required to do so.

They can make their own decision on this when they are adults.

Am I being ridiculous and petty or is it reasonable to stand up for my view that just because a custom is part of a religion that does not excuse it being discriminatory?

'I wouldn't have a problem with female priests and neither would a lot of Catholics.'

Chinchilla - it doesn't matter at all if you'd be ok with female priests, the fact is the Catholic church says women can't be priests purely because they are women. Why any woman would accept that level of disrespect is beyond me.

I simply can't understand this! . DS has been on many school trips to mosques (and synagogues and Sikh and Hindu temples, and lots of churches) and the girls were NEVER required to wear headscarves. All children were told to wear the correct school school uniform (ie both sexes 'modestly' dressed) and behave appropriately, wherever they were visiting.

The Catholic Church teaches girls and women that they are lesser, that their role is to support men. It has also preached in the past in countries ridden with HIV, that using condoms is wrong. It preaches anti gay beliefs, and has destroyed native cultures and spread disease and death, with their proselytising. If you don't think the Catholic Church is evil, you don't understand exactly how many lives it has destroyed

So much sophistry to avoid saying that girls should have to put up with another attempt at putting them in their place... waders, bathing suits, "respect"... none of that matches with a demand for girls to hide themselves more than boys to avoid the male gaze... and to accept it in the name of multiculturalism...

There are always a disproportionate number of school trips to mosques and synagogues (compared to the importance of RE in the syllabus). My children were bored by most of these trips. I guess they are cheaper than trips to art galleries, science museums, concerts, theatres, historical and archeological sites, and other more varied and interesting venues.

I would let her go because I think she will gain understanding through having the actual experience; then I would have several discussions about the misogynistic and generally warped side of most organised religion.

how will we learn tolerance if we cant try to acknowledge and respect each others practises for a short period of time

I find this so very sad

This comes across as really bigoted I am afraid

be the bigger person

Sorry that should be "There is".

It's what, an hour, in the mosque? That is not going to give any girl a complex about their place in society, particularly if OP discusses it with them.

I have been to the cathedral in both Fatima and Lourdes. In neither were people asked to do more than cover legs, men not be shirtless and women not to wear tops like bikini tops. I wore a t shirt in Fatima, absolutely no issue at all.

At some point women have to say 'I know this religion gets off on humiliating women but you know what I won't have my girls subjected to that.' Religion is not an excuse to treat people like shit.

I am amazed that these days chn are taught far more about Judaism and Islam than Christianity. Even in C of E and Catholic schools and i've worked in both. you'd never guess this was a Christian country!

Scatteroflight

Wow, a visit to a mosque is an indoctrination session?? Did you find that out on Britain First’s Facebook page. My kids went with the scouts for a trip around the local mosque. So far they haven’t been muttering allah or looking up jihadi websites but I’ll double check their browsing history.

You know the scouts don’t you?? The ones that require the kids to swear an oath(or used to) to God and the Queen.

Get a grip, its an educational trip.

Why should we tolerate misogynistic practices simply because they are religious? Should we have tolerated the Mormons beliefs when they previously said black people can not become Mormons because they are lesser than white people? Sexism and racism is never okay, including from religions.

That's twaddle, green.

It could be a useful experience. I once visited a mosque in a Muslim country. the imam kept going on about how very lucky we were to be allowed in at all as other imams wouldn't let women in. We were each aske din turn if we were menstruating because if so we were unclean and could not enter. I had no intention of telling the men I worked with. let a lone a bunch of strangers, so lied and said no.

To enter, we had to wear the full cover up - head to toe in black. We all kept our heads down as the garments were so big we nearly tripped over them. In that saggy swampy black sheet, the world seemed shrouded. I had to take tiny steps to avoid tripping up. I had no peripheral vision. The men we were with were presented with a small tub of perfume which smelled wonderful and they came over to us to let us try it. Muslim clerics came flying from all corners of the mosque to shout at us and ripped the tub of perfume from my hand. Women were not allowed to smell the special perfume. It was only for men.

By the time I got out of there I was shocked at how quickly I had felt reduced and demeaned and undermined and just lesser. I profoundly despise any attitude that reduces one member of society to glorify another, particularly when justified/glamorised under a notion of godliness. Godly my arse. It's a very human and mean spirited set of man made rules.

So...ironically, I'd let her go. Let her learn first hand how utterly ridiculous and spurious the rules for women are.

It's fact actually iris

Would everyone here be ok with a school trip where the black children had to wear armbands because they were black?

YABU.

It's an educational trip. Your primary school aged kids are not going to be converted to Islam on a school trip.
It's about teaching them that other religions and cultures do things differently to their own, I fail to see why you would prevent your children from taking part in that? We live in a multi-cultural society, it's important for children to learn about it.
Would you have a problem if they were going to a Hindu temple and were asked to remove their shoes before entering? Or to a Sunday church service and had to wear something a little more formal than jeans and a tshirt? It's absolutely no different.
You don't have to have the same beliefs as someone else, but I would want to teach my DD to respect the beliefs of others. And if that means covering her head/removing her shoes etc out of respect for the beliefs of the people in whatever place of worship the school was visiting, then so be it.

Sparkly, would you be ok with a school trip where black children were treated differently to white children, simply because they were black?

It's a good opportunity to discuss these things with your daughters. Explain that in the religion it is a requirement for girls to be covered by a head scarf and why. Ask them how they feel about it, and how they feel about it being the boys only.

Yanbu to refuse them to go, but just refusing isn't really teaching them why and to respect others beliefs. Personally I think it's far more beneficial to get them to make up their own minds and learn respect others have different minds at the same time.

If during the discussion they said they didn't want to go I'd respect that.

We 'tolerate' them because to go insist that everyone becomes as civilised as us, overnight, causes some problems.

Mainly with 'us' being roundly berated for being 'so very colonial' etc.

We 'tolerate' much because we have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc.

We 'tolerate' it because it would be ridiculous to insist on total homogeneity according to 'our' lights and to expect people to be happy to trot along.

We 'tolerate' it because sometimes the people involved have to mature and see the problem for themselves, rather than being forced into changing because some pious, hate filled majority ethnicity told them to!

We 'tolerate' it mainly because it really isn't simple at all

If the trip was to a synagogue and the boys had to cover their heads would you be complaining?

Would everyone here be ok with a school trip where the black children had to wear armbands because they were black?

don't we live in a society where both the accepted rules of dress, and the actual rules of dress are different for men and women?

I agree with the OP in principle, but our own society has this problem.