to not send my girls on this school trip because of my beliefs

[JustGiveMeTwoMinutes]

The trip is to a mosque and the girls (year 3 and 4) have to cover their heads with a scarf, the boys don't have to.

Just to be clear about where I am coming from, this is about a specific practice which I believe is discriminatory and therefore disagree with. I would not choose myself to enter a building that I could only enter if I wore particular clothes but where that requirement was limited to one gender or one group defined by arbitrary characteristics. I would be happy to cover my head as a sign of respect/tradition if everyone entering the building was required to do so.

They can make their own decision on this when they are adults.

Am I being ridiculous and petty or is it reasonable to stand up for my view that just because a custom is part of a religion that does not excuse it being discriminatory?

waders

Our kids went on a similar trip last year (y3) but they asked the boys to wear headscarves as well. It was a valuable experience for them all, to learn about another religion/faith (they go to a C of E school) first hand, not from the media. We may not agree with it, but we can learn and accept. I think that a school encouraging tolerance and acceptance and respect for others beliefs should be commended. Indoctrination - that's bollocks.

And note, not all Muslims agree that girls and women should cover their heads. There are many different sects within Islam, just as there are within Christianity.

I think OP's problem with the request is that girls are asked to do this and not boys.When not all mosques require girls to do this, it seems sexist.

Ask your daughters whether they want to go?

If they feel humiliated by this requirement, and are not so much interested in seeing the building, then support them in that decision, if they think it is worth the educational value/ want to see the building, then let them go.

We still live in a patriarchal world and have to make decision on whether to yield to patriarchal pressure or not. Wear high heels or be critisized for unfashionable footwear? Wear a short skirt and be called "slut" or a longer one and be called "prude"?

There's lots and lots of shitty decisions. Help your daughters practise it early.

SirChenjin I appreciate that, but remember schools... men are held to a much higher formality of dress code than men, as are many other office based workplaces I have also worked in.

This is the text message received from the school today. It was not mentioned in the trip letter sent out 2 weeks ago. The teacher has confirmed this is her 4th trip to this mosque and they have only been asked to wear the scarves once.

Mosque visit: Please can boys wear trousers. Girls either tights or trousers plus head covering eg. scarf. Thank you.

I would be perfectly fine if boys had to cover their heads. I would not accept this from any organisation christian, muslim or secular.

Tassletits, my blood runs cold at the thought!

Thank you all for some very helpful replies.

Not the ones I've worked in Blanche - a dress code is a dress code, and it certainly isn't there to protect women from the lustful gazes of men.

There's a whole list of maybes, which the OP isn't addressing.

1. Are we sure the boys don't have to?

1. Is this the school or the Immam?

1. Is this an enormous wind-up?

If it is the Immam and it is just the girls, YANBU. It is sexist.

x-post

Nobody should respect misogynistic practices, even when in the name of religion.

Because you would just accept & do it without thinking twice about it, that's what I meant !

I think by not allowing them to go it's making a massive issue & it's also deciding for them.

Why not just go with the flow & let them experience it then if they never want to set foot in one again that's their call

But to say women are despised is wrong.

Perhaps your experience of Catholicism has been different than mine. In Ireland, women were locked up, sometimes for life, because they'd had sex outside marriage, while nothing at all happened to men. Even when women followed the rules and had sex within marriage they still had to be 'churched' ie cleansed once they had a baby because they were considered dirty simply because they were women who had had sex (again nothing at all happened to men). My gran endured 9 c-sections because the catholic church said she should be denied any sort of contraception and that her only value was as a breeding animal. A priest in Ireland called a famous Irish athlete a 'slut' during mass because she had a baby out of wedlock. Simply for being a woman I was always considered lesser in the eyes of the church.

I did indeed feel despised.

So covering up their legs I would have no issue with, as both girls and boys have to do it.

I assume that you also won't be letting your daughter go to swimming lessons where prepubescent girls are expected to wear swimming costumes which cover their nipples while the boys wear trunks.

My daughter wouldn't be going. Our children should be taught from a young age that treating men and women differently in the name of religion is unacceptable. Muslim girls in many countries don't have any choice about the way they are treated and disrespected. Thank goodness our children do not have to submit to out of date religious practices.

I'd still say let them go and experience it, even if only to promote that interesting discussion afterwards.

I always think it's ........interesting.....how very feminist people become when it's anything to do with Islam.

To be honest, I don’t believe in any form of magic sky pixie but if I’m confronted with a cultural norm then I’ll comply so as not to cause offence. Just because I don’t believe in it doesn’t mean I’m right.

So, in order to let my DD learn about a specific religion, I would not object to her having her hair covered for educational purposes. I would want my children to learn about all religions despite not believing because religion is deeply ingrained in culture.

I take my hat off if I go into a church and I covered my head in a sikh Gudwara.

Ok cleaty

YABU - the school trips we went on as children to the synagogue, church, etc were helpful in making these spaces seem less exclusive and unknown, a chance to ask questions. By all means dispute the head covering (which is probably not demanded by the mosque, especially if your girls are young) but it would be a shame to shut down an opportunity to learn and draw conclusions based on more direct information rather than assumptions.

I always think it's ........interesting.....how very feminist people become when it's anything to do with Islam. Having just come from the thread about Christianity, hearing how only Christians are vilified and discriminated against, it's all very ironic.

Yes, cleaty.

Much the same all other organised religions.

But they exist and we all have to learn that they do and find our own way of dealing with them. I go with know thy enemy that way I can be fearful of scary things, rather than unknown things.

YANBU

Catholicism and Islam despise women. Asking girls to go into their territories and accept disrespect from them is unacceptable.
^ that one the one hand.

But on the other hand, you could use it at home to make a discussion point on the treatment of women in religion.

Could it be worth explaining to her why this custom exists and then asking if she wants to go?

I felt very uncomfortable in Rome having to cover my chest and arms to visit Catholic Churches and in Islamic countries having to cover my head. especially in the churches when men were entering wearing tight vest tops and short shorts. It was also disturbing that women were not allowed to pray in some of the mosques.