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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In hoping they got that Jihadi John executioner?

143 replies

Alfieisnoisy · 13/11/2015 08:16

Very odd AIBU and perhaps I am being very U.

I am as woolly and bleeding heart as you get usually.

I know we set a dangerous precedent by these attacks...no jury or judge, no trial (not that they could easily get him back to hold one).

I am conflicted about how I feel but I am just thinking of Alan Henning and all those other people who went out to eithe support aid or to tell the world what was happening and who died brutally at his hands.

I am also sad that a promising young man (from what I have heard) became so radicalised.

Oh I don't know what to think but for the likes of Alan Henning's family I hope this man is now dead. And I shouldn't be speaking for the Henning family, they may not agree with the actions taken, I don't know them or what their wishes may be.

Talk to me those of you able to put an alternate point of view, am willing to be persuaded that the air strikes are wrong but at the moment I just feel glad that they have potentially kills someone who has brought so much suffering to many people throughout the world by his actions.

OP posts:
TwoSmellyDogs · 13/11/2015 08:18

I can't put an alternate point of view. My only regret - if he is indeed dead - is that he wasn't taken alive. But if he is dead - good. I speak only for myself but I can't imagine the families of any of his innocent victims will be feeling too sorry for him today.

RJnomaaaaaargh · 13/11/2015 08:20

I'm a bleeding heart to - anti death penalty, etc etc - and I can't help but agree with you.

I think it's because there's no hope of him being held and justice being done so the next best solution feels like making sure he can't do any more harm.

My thoughts this morning are with the families of all of those brave men from the videos.

Only1scoop · 13/11/2015 08:21

I'd personally rather he was killed by a blunt instrument eventually hacking off his head whilst being filmed by happy onlookers.

Anything less is a little too humane for this monster.

Sorry

firesidechat · 13/11/2015 08:21

l would much rather that they had found him, brought him back to the UK and sent him to prison for life. A martyr's death is too good for him. But I guess that was always an unlikely scenario and they got him in any way they could.

ThisOldFool · 13/11/2015 08:27

I believe in life after death, so I do just wonder what Jihadi John will be saying to those he murdered.

honeysucklejasmine · 13/11/2015 08:30

I can't pretend to be upset about it, but I read a comment from the family of James Foley, the American, who said whilst they are "pleased" they do wosh as much effort had gone in to rescuing the hostages as has been used killing their murderers.

howtorebuild · 13/11/2015 08:33

JJ won't be in the same place after death as his targets. I would have preferred him incarcerated.

Topseyt · 13/11/2015 08:34

I am anti-death penalty too, though would make an exception in his case.

If he is dead, good. I don't doubt that there may be others waiting somewhere to pick up where he leaves off eventually.

Would I lose any sleep over him though? None at all.

MistyBells · 13/11/2015 08:41

I hope he suffered to be honest

Moreshabbythanchic · 13/11/2015 08:43

I'm just sorry he had a swift death unlike his victims who suffered so horribly and cruelly at his hands.

Booyaka · 13/11/2015 08:45

If he'd been brought back to the UK and put in prison he would have been far too dangerous. He would have been a glamorous radicalising figure, attracting plenty of new recruits, especially in prison. The Guardian would be hanging off his every word from his jail cell, presenting him as a freedom fighter against the oppressive West. Cage and Liberty would be fighting for his freedom and classification as a Prisoner of War. I suspect if Corbyn was elected they may well be successful there too.

Plus it would cost obscene amounts of money to keep him imprisoned, which would be better spent elsewhere. Plus if he was in prison all the usual suspects would be making inflammatory claims about what was happening to him in there to fire up anger.

I think it's far better he's gone. He would have been to dangerous in many ways captive. And ISIS can pretend what they like about martyrs deaths, their leadership is severely weakened and they know it.

Booyaka · 13/11/2015 08:46

ThisOldFool I really doubt they'll be in the same place.

wannaBe · 13/11/2015 08:46

I think that death is the only outcome for people like him. Reality is that he would never be sentenced to life in prison here in the UK. it would only be a matter of time before the human rights brigade became involved or the law on terror changed and he was released.

but while I do think that death here is the appropriate outcome, I do hope that there won't be any video footage doing the rounds as did with e.g. osama Binladen or Sadaam Hussain. It's possible to kill a killer, even brutally, but what sets us apart from that killer is the ability to retain the dignity of the dead in death. iyswim.

Original poster
Alfieisnoisy · 13/11/2015 08:55

I suppose the only thing I can think opposing it is that the families will never now get to have a day in court.

Then again you don't just pitch up in that part of the world with an arrest warrant and bring him back.

I think this was the only possible outcome but felt conflicted about it. I hope he is dead though and not able to cause any further suffering.

OP posts:
Enjolrass · 13/11/2015 09:00

There wouldn't have been a trial. We would never have got him back.

Personally I cant believe they ever planned on bringing Osama bin laden back alive. It's just too dangerous.

I can't think of JJs victims without tearing up. It was so horrifying.

I feel very conflicted about this. Not because of JJ, uni he deserves to die, but because I am uncomfortable with the US bombing again.

TheoriginalLEM · 13/11/2015 09:03

Well IF he is dead, i am not going to lose any sleep.

It doesn't mean i agree with what was done though. How many other people were killed in this attack? innocent people?

I think honeysucklejasmine makes an excellent point. This wont act as a detterrant and whilst it will have taken out one dangerous individual, there will be others, spurred on by his death, to take his place.

Killing Bin Laden didn't help. He should have stood trial - well, thats even if he is dead.

I don't have the answer but this isn't it.

ottothedog · 13/11/2015 09:04

Does it really matter if you are not personally affected? I dont even know how i would feel if i were one of the families. He was the person who actually killed them but he is just one person in a war. It is not much use claiming the us might have killed him if isis are still running riot across the middle east. Pure propoganda on both sides

TheWitTank · 13/11/2015 09:06

While I can't say I'm sorry he is dead, I do wish he had been captured alive and held to account for the horrific crimes he has committed. He has had an easy way out -a quick painless death he would have known nothing/very little about prior to it happening, his"comrades" will hold him up as a martyr who died for his cause in a "glorious" death. I would rather he had rotted in jail. This was never going to happen though. I hope the families he has destroyed can take some comfort in the fact he has gone.

ARV1981 · 13/11/2015 09:10

It's tough.

I'm liberal. I Don't believe in the death penalty. I do believe in a fair trial.

But ISIS is evil. Pure and simple. They attack everything that's beautiful and wonderful and replace with ugly. Islam can be beautiful, and it sickens me what these extremists are doing - turning it into something so ugly. Muslims are not the enemy. Fucked up freaks who have latched onto outdated doctrines to , wield power are the enemy.

Unfortunately, there will always be cowards like this jihadi John character who use a beautiful religion (I don't personally have a faith, but am full of admiration for those that do, and who use it for good in the world) to carry out ugly atrocities. God (if there is one) would not condone this man's actions, I'm 100% sure of that.

So, yes, I'm with you. I hope they got him.

He should face trial of course, but these bastards would probably twist that as well and as pp have said use him to recruit more jihadists. So we're screwed either way... if he's dead then they'll make him a martyr; if he was captured alive and stood trial he'd be given a voice... it's bloody difficult. He would use all the freedoms and liberties that he wants removed from the world in his favour. Grrrr. These people put me in a difficult frame of mind. I want them gone. But I also believe in freedom and justice!!

caitlinohara · 13/11/2015 09:14

I don't think anyone deserves to die for their crimes, and I take issue with the sneery 'human rights brigade' comments, but like others have said, I won't be losing any sleep over it. If there was a possibility that he could have been taken alive, he should have been, but if it was kill him or let him escape, obviously whoever was in charge made the right call.

wannaBe · 13/11/2015 09:14

How could there ever have been a trial though? The whole thing would be a spectacle. And really, would there ever be a fair trial of someone like that who is categorically known to be guilty ? His defence wouldn't be that he wasn't there, it would be that he was acting in the name of the Islamic state, or whatever they come out with to justify their actions.

and you'd be hoping to god you didn't get selected for jury service for that one wouldn't you?

DeoGratias · 13/11/2015 09:16

The families wanted him captured alive and tried. Now we may never know if he's actually dead or not.

Do we really think we should do what he did - kill without trial? Doesn't that makes us as bad as he is? Is that what we're fighting for?

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 13/11/2015 09:19

Yanbu. I hope it hurt.

MildVirago · 13/11/2015 09:22

Booyaka, can you point to any evidence whatsoever that the Guardian has ever presented Jihadi John as a 'freedom fighter against the oppressive West' that leads you to think it would 'hang off every word from his jail cell'?

As regards his successors, it's interesting -and disquieting - that while the films of beheadings have continued, JJ hasn't appeared in one since January, when he beheaded that Japanese photographer. Some were suggesting he had left ISIS, or the region, but if they killed him there, he had presumably moved to another role...

wannaBe · 13/11/2015 09:27

"Do we really think we should do what he did - kill without trial? Doesn't that makes us as bad as he is? Is that what we're fighting for?" but for him a trial would mean giving him a platform to air his particular views. Is that what we want?

In an ideal world he, and others like him would be put on trial and sentenced for their crimes. But in reality capturing him would mean that he would need to be held probably indefinitely while a decision could be made on how to give him a fair trial. And the truth is, there is no way he could ever have a fair trial. So essentially capturing him would mean that he would be sentenced to an indefinite period of incarceration, and then what? terror attacks demanding his release such as the highjacking which happened in the early 2000's where prisoners were indeed released in order to secure the release of highjack victims etc? He would be as much of a martyr in prison as he would dead, except that in prison his martyrdom would never end.