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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In hoping they got that Jihadi John executioner?

143 replies

Alfieisnoisy · 13/11/2015 08:16

Very odd AIBU and perhaps I am being very U.

I am as woolly and bleeding heart as you get usually.

I know we set a dangerous precedent by these attacks...no jury or judge, no trial (not that they could easily get him back to hold one).

I am conflicted about how I feel but I am just thinking of Alan Henning and all those other people who went out to eithe support aid or to tell the world what was happening and who died brutally at his hands.

I am also sad that a promising young man (from what I have heard) became so radicalised.

Oh I don't know what to think but for the likes of Alan Henning's family I hope this man is now dead. And I shouldn't be speaking for the Henning family, they may not agree with the actions taken, I don't know them or what their wishes may be.

Talk to me those of you able to put an alternate point of view, am willing to be persuaded that the air strikes are wrong but at the moment I just feel glad that they have potentially kills someone who has brought so much suffering to many people throughout the world by his actions.

OP posts:
EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 10:28

I agree with that OneFlew.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 13/11/2015 10:32

Ena
The situation in the Middle East is far far more complicated than the media presents. DH is a North African Muslim and his view of what is happening is different to what the US media would present as the truth. For the record he hates ISIS and regards them as evil murders.

There are huge geopolitical factors going on Russia intervening in Syria partly to bolster Putin's image and protect their foothold in the region. Britain and the US tolerating Saudi Arabia as a buffer against some of the more anti-West view points. Iran pushing its own agenda and encouraging the Sunni / Shia tensions. The instability in Iraq and Afghanistan still leaving something of a vaccuum in the area. The growing tensions in Egypt and North Africa over corrupt governments that are perceived as propped up by Europe and the US. If you add in historically low oil prices that is causing budget deficits in the oil rich states that have little other source of income to replace the lost income from hydrocarbons. Then you throw some twisted individuals who have been radicalised into the mix...

That is just the obvious things off the top of my head. The more I learn about the issue the less I feel I know. It is horribly complex.

EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 10:34

I never said it wasn't complex. I personally take that as a given!

I was responding to the bald assertion that it was the US and UK.

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 13/11/2015 10:34

Ena, Seumas Milne was not JC's press officer when he wrote that article. Seems to me he was selected because he is a journalist who happens to share some of JC's (IMHO very well-informed and humane) views.

Kewcumber · 13/11/2015 10:35

Also anti-death penalty, bleeding heart liberal here.

But if you're going to wage a holy war then you have to expect to become a holy casualty. The idea of trying to take out specific individuals is dangerous though in my view - smacks too much of assasination. However nothing wrong in war at targetting commanders.

I don't think he will become a martyr, there are too many people being killed and wounded (ongoing) and in a years time I'd lay a bet that most of the ISIS fighters on the ground will barely remember him.

EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 10:36

Well we obviously will never agree Another.

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 13/11/2015 10:36

If the assertion appeared bald, it was in response to the tendency towards bald, brazen, neglect of these factors by the government/mainstream media.

Kewcumber · 13/11/2015 10:37

I agree with oneflew - I think my view is not incompatible with what she posted!

EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 10:37

Yes blame the media for your own words.

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 13/11/2015 10:37

Well we obviously will never agree Another.

Perhaps we can agree on this, at least, Ena. Brew

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 13/11/2015 10:37

there will be several more stepping up to replace him and they will feel even more justified in engaging in war if they view him as having been killed without a trial IMO.

EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 10:50

If you are Mrs Corbyn I'll try your coffee!

AnotherEffingOrangeRevel · 13/11/2015 10:56

Grin That sounds like some kind of horrible euphamism, Ena. Not sure I'd want to be Mrs Corbyn, but if I had to choose one politician...

EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 10:57

I'm shaking my head now..

DeoGratias · 13/11/2015 11:05

"Suggestions that he may have been photoshopped or not guilty etc are incredibly dangerous and surely borderline incitement themselves?"

At the moment I still live in an England where I am allowed to say that is a possibility. If we carry on killing without trial and changing our law to cut back on our freedoms I won't be allowed to say that and we might as well all live in Saudi or Raqqa.

Even Radion4 this morning said it was not 100% clear he had been killed. This is why we have trials to test evidence. We don't just shoot to kill. If you had a local person whom you thought was kiling children or having sex with them would you want the right to take a gun and kill them or would you want them put on trial?

What we need to do is keep out of the Middle East and protect our own borders. Even if that leaves Russia to mop up we will be safer for it as will the people there.

CleansingSurfaceWipe · 13/11/2015 11:06

What we need to do is keep out of the Middle East

I agree with this. But it won't happen, because there is too much to be gained by invasion/war.

evilcherub · 13/11/2015 11:11

This is brilliant news. I just hope he died a slow, painful, terrifying death.

LegoRuinedMyFinances · 13/11/2015 11:16

The Middle East is an undoubtedly unstable place and events caused by the West have fuelled this. However, this does not excuse the actions of that abhorrent individual, who was actually raised in Britain and probably didn't suffer the atrocities that the West have caused in the Middle East. Joining ISIS and causing terror to those who live in the Middle East isn't exactly saviour behaviour is it?

I don't feel any sadness over what happened.

I am not naive enough to believe everything sold to us by the USA, and I'm not necessarily happy about the way in which this attack came about.

But JJ's death is not a bad thing. My thoughts are with all the families of the victims of JJ today, and I hope they can find some small semblance of peace in the aftermath of this monsters death.

EnaSharplesHairnet · 13/11/2015 11:27

I wholeheartedly agree with DeoGratia's last post.

I understand the desire for vengeance but there needs to be a counter to the idea of an Islamic Caliphate.

A society run with the aid of assassination squads is not one to celebrate imo.

Aristaeus · 13/11/2015 11:58

@DeoGratias. Putting him on trial would be better than extrajudicial killing, but how would you capture him alive and get him back? Would you put British soldiers at risk for what would be a slim chance of success?

Capturing him alive was unrealistic and too risky to attempt.

myotherusernameisbetter · 13/11/2015 12:18

Glad he is dead if he is. Hope it wasn't instant either.

Still, he'll be happy 'cos he'll be enjoying his virgins won't he? Hmm

I'd let them have their state - let anyone who wanted to be there be there and any who didn't leave....and then I'd bomb the shit out of it. Brutal, impractical and would never happen, but it's really the only way imo

OfaFrenchmind2 · 13/11/2015 12:23

I am glad. I hope he died crying and screaming, in the most undignified way possible. I hope he saw himself mangled and hopeless before dying.
But then I am pretty vindictive...

batshitlady · 13/11/2015 12:35

You're no f*ing better than him then are you?

I'd sooner he was captured and interrogated.

Original poster
Alfieisnoisy · 13/11/2015 12:46

Reading all the posts and thank you for the opposing views too.

I suppose my only thought is that it would never have been safe to try and bring him back for trial.

The Middle East is a very complex place and I guess my only thoughts are about innocent civilians who might have got caught up in this.

I am also unsure about whether there will be more of an escalation of atrocities as a result.

It's all a mess.

I follow Canon Andrew White on Facebook who does lots of work with refugees affected by the problems in the Middle East (he's known as the Vicar of Baghdad). When even he is saying "I don't see anything else they could do" it hits me. This is a man utterly opposed to violence and war.

Anyway thank you all for sharing your thoughts. I am still conflicted but it's good to read other views.

OP posts:
strangechild · 13/11/2015 12:46

I'm quite interested in the 'I'm a liberal, but I would make an exception...' or 'I'm anti-death penalty but…' type comments on here. TBh it's cases like these, the hard ones, that test your credentials, and if what you're actually saying is you don't mind that he's not been brought to trial, or you don't mind that he has effectively been executed for his crimes then you're not really liberal or anti-death penalty.

FWIW I'm fine with the fact this has happened - no US soldiers were injured or killed in killing him, and he was obviously a dangerous man - but let's not forget that the manner in which he was killed is totally against the ideals we hold in this country.