To think we should bring back the Death Penalty for proven very serious offenders

[ILiveAtTheBeach]

They have raped and murdered. Yet, they have no money worries, a roof over their head, 3 square meals a day, Sky TV, PS4, arranged activities....why are we so bloody soft? We have an over crowding problem in jails. Why can't we give these monsters a lethal injection and be done with it? Sometimes they are released back into society under a false identity (to protect them). What about our protection? They could move in next door. Who would be up for getting rid?

Or wait, are you the OP and have NCed? That's a little confusing.

Yes. Let's punish someone who has killed by killing them.
I suggest you spend time researching capital punishment. Start with the USA.
I wouldn't even know where to begin with what is wrong with capital punishment.

Death penalty debates are kind of pointless anyway as the UK is never going to bring back capital punishment. And I'm very glad about that!

I visited a number of prisons weekly for years.

The categories of prisons reserved for serious and dangerous offenders are not a walk in the park.

Locked up for 23 hours a day, shared cells, using the toilet in front of each other, no arranged activities, constant noise, inedible food, bullying, fighting, dirty protests and suicides. It's better to have nothing so you aren't beaten up for it. If you really want more than an hour a day out of your cell you might be lucky and get a job cleaning toilets for £8 per week.

And visitors are treated with the same level of disgust and contempt as the prisoners.

Have you honestly been in a Cat A or B prison op?

Actually it is fair to say that for the very chaotic, an open prison can be a very secure and safe environment. If on the outside you have fuck all and nobody, and in prison you're always in an actual bed at night with a full stomach and you'll have exchanged at least two words with another human being ...

Mind you, it's not usually murderers in that situation and your life has to be pretty shit for prison to be better.

I've been in a Cat B prison as a visitor, delivering IT training to staff, and I can confirm that it is no hotel. The cells are tiny. The interior is beyond bleak. To get anywhere, you have to go through endless sets of locked double doors, and the exterior spaces for exercise are almost bare. I can't imagine spending any time in there, just visiting was highly stressful.

How can you possibly have a system which punishes murder by committing murder itself? How does that even begin to look reasonable?

Making prisons far less comfortable - definitely.
RTFT!
Yes, for some people in there it is luxury: 3 meals a day, gym - things they can't afford outside.
Which says more about society than it does our prison system.

YABU for all the reasons already stated. I simply cannot understand how anyone can think that killing someone because they killed someone else makes sense on any level. It just sends out a message that it's ok to kill in certain circumstances. No it's not, not in my world anyway.

Which says more about society than it does our prison system.

indeed. If the best way to get 3 square meals a day is to commit a crime and go to prison, something is wrong with our economy/society.

OP I'm another who thinks YABvvU, for much the same reason as everybody else. State sanctioned murder is just wrong and very disturbing.

I worked in a forensic mental health hospital for quite a while, with offenders who had raped, murdered, kidnapped and hurt children. All of the men had come from terrible upbringings, most had learning difficulties and substance abuse problems. But do you know what? Everyone of them still had something positive still in them. I honestly believe that every life is worth something and that a person's value and worth is not solely determined by the worst thing they have ever done. I realise not everyone will agree with this, that's fine, it's just my point of view.

I agree with the poster who said that the death penalty create more victims. The family of the executed person become another set of victims also being punished. They have lost a loved one and they themselves will likely be shunned by society.

I have not been a victim of a serious crime, but I cannot imagine that your attacker being killed will be the magic cure to all your problems. I would imagine that victims lives go on being affected forever, that they can't draw a line under that episode of their life an move on just like that.

The people who allegedly commit 'death penalty worthy' crimes are usually the poorest and least educated people in society (google Amnesty International and the Death Penalty Information Centre for statistics). They are unable to afford competent and decent legal representation so they don't really stand a chance do they?

Dawn do you seriously want to rehabilitate people who chop other people up? Really?

They don't seem to realise you cannot run a justice system on the basis of how you "feel" Umm but in a chat forum you are allowed to muse on ideas on how you feel because ummmm op {whispers} doesn't actually have any power to change our justice system.

i think in general the way we protect our children is utterly pitiful and I think a new raft of laws and punishments needs to be drafted to make it clear we will not tolerate any abuse of dc.

Oh dear ^ Oh dear, oh dear I think for me Grays post sums up everything that is wrong^ with our attitude to child abuse>

I worked in a forensic mental health hospital for quite a while, with offenders who had raped, murdered, kidnapped and hurt children. All of the men had come from terrible upbringings, most had learning difficulties and substance abuse problems. But do you know what? Everyone of them still had something positive still in them

What a bizzare and almost in human comment to make.

You do realise how many people also have abusive and hideous up bringing who do not go on to totally annihilate the life of another child.

I wonder if you have a child Grays, and one whom you love. I just wonder if your child was abused, raped, left with not only long lasting physical injuries but became a hollow, haunted shadow of a girl whose life has been robbed. And will never ever be the same.

I just wonder if you could look at her abuser and attacker and cup his face and say sweetly " you still have something positive in you" then go back to your broken, smashed child whose life has been robbed. FFS.

for some people in there it is luxury: 3 meals a day, gym - things they can't afford outside.

I wonder how many men have thought "hmm I can't afford a gym membership. I know! I'll commit a crime just so I can get locked up and work out!"

Dawn do you seriously want to rehabilitate people who chop other people up? Really?
I fully accept that some people are ill and may well be beyond rehabilitation, it doesn't mean I want them murdered though. Everybody capable of rehabilitation should be afforded that chance. As I say, look at the figures for Norway, the reoffend rate is less than half of ours.

Leaves, that abuser was once the child you talk about.

Those who are more comfortable in prison there is a reason they can't cope with life outside

That is very sad and these people need support and help to be able to do so

Baby P would have probably turned into a criminal if he had lived. Some criminals have been seriously let down during childhood.

One thing I'd get rid of from prisons is gyms. I'd have plenty of other activities - including 5-a-side etc, but not gyms. According to several people I know who work in prisons, gyms just serve to enable people to pump themselves up, become aggressive and also they are hubs for gang/bully recruitment.

Gyms enable people to lose weight and improve fitness in a fairly cramped space.

"According to several people I know who work in prisons, gyms just serve to enable people to pump themselves up, become aggressive and also they are hubs for gang/bully recruitment."

Surely that is a matter supervision. Sometimes going for a run on a running machine can get rid of pent up agression. I believe that quite a high proportion of prisioners have ADHD. Maybe going to a gym is a civilised way of controlling hyperactivity.

Here, I have an idea. Why don't we give prison officers a budget and the freedom allow them to decide whether prisoners have availabity of gym, Sky or education or councelling. Maybe prison officers could have a bonus dependent on whether rehabilation is sucessful. Different prisons could share information on what works and what doesn't.

I guess ops criteria for monser would be child murderers, rapists, paedophiles, those who beat up the elderly and vulnerable. Not an unreasonable description AFAIAC
I do take your point, op. They have all these mod cons in prison that a lot of hard working law abiding citizens can only dream of. They're fed 3 square meals per day, and probably snacks, too. Yet again though. There are law abiding benefits claimants courtesy of a benefit sanction, whose only crime is to be unemployed and need help , and low paid workers queue uo at food banks. Doesn't seem fair because it is not fucking fair. Everyone knows the systems stinks. Is it any wonder people get annoyed.
Im torn on the death penalty. I agree with an eye for an eye. Hey it says so in the Bible, but the Bible tends to contradict itself.
But let's also consider that they have the death penalty in certain American States. Don't know which ones off hand, mind, but they don't behave any better do they. It's not like serious crime is unheard of over there is it, so I don't think it counts as a deterant.
Perhaps the answer should be to stop making prisons like a freeeeeekin holiday camp.

Tired, You can't make that assumption about Baby P. He could have grown up to be a Surgeon. Who can say he wouldn't.
Not that poor little innocent lambs fault. He was born to that disgusting cunt as a mother.

CanI. I think I'll get my violins out for you know the Victims of these horrendous crimes as to why they're locked away for 23 hours a day.
I imagine it wasn't or isnt a walk in the park for them either, nor their families.
The criminals had a choice whether or not to rape, touture murder. Now their innocent victims had no choice.

lighthouse. They're not fucking prison camps, they're really not. More than one person has posted saying that they have worked in the system, me included. It's not a prison camp. There aren't luxuries.

It is a grave injustice that we have perfectly law abiding people who don't get 3 square meals a day and can't afford a gym, who are being punished by over-severe sanctions (sanctions shouldn't exist in a civilised society).

If it is seen as a basic necessity and therefore provided in prisons, then that should be the lowest level at which you start your calculations for your welfare payments.