To think we should bring back the Death Penalty for proven very serious offenders

[ILiveAtTheBeach]

They have raped and murdered. Yet, they have no money worries, a roof over their head, 3 square meals a day, Sky TV, PS4, arranged activities....why are we so bloody soft? We have an over crowding problem in jails. Why can't we give these monsters a lethal injection and be done with it? Sometimes they are released back into society under a false identity (to protect them). What about our protection? They could move in next door. Who would be up for getting rid?

There is a documentary available on You tube called 14 days in May, its about a man called Eward Earl Johnson. I would urge all of you who want to bring the death penalty back take a watch about and read about the facts of the case. Then come back and let me know if you would be happy for the death penalty to be reinstated.

Lighthouse No need for the violins thanks. No one is saying the victims lives are a walk in the park. The OP and some others on this thread are saying serious offenders lives are.

RTFT - someone asked for input from a person who visits prisons and I gave it. I never said these prisoners deserve more or less.

I don't have to RTFT to have an opinion,

agree Awadebumbo

I first watched it about 25 years ago it still moves me thinking about it

I have advised this too on these debates its a very powerful documentary and one everyone should watch

The 2014-2015 budget for food was £2.02 per prisoner per day

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/438939/daily-food-allowance-per-prisoner.doc

I don't think they are dining in style

I don't have to RTFT to have an opinion,
No, but it helps to have all the information at hand so that you are able to proffer an informed opinion.

^

What Dawn said!

because human beings cannot be trusted with these decisions

EVER

we get it wrong, time after time- we are so flawed

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVU

Oh and what would be your preferred method OP? bear in mind that most pharma firms will not set their lethal injection drugs to the US any more

I watched the documentary on Edward Earl Johnson over 20 years ago, when I was in high school, and I've never forgotten it. That poor man. And how many other death row inmates in the US have been released because, many years later, it was found that they were innocent? I can't see how anyone could hear about that and still think the death penalty is a good idea.

Wow Chaz, you mean they're not dining in style on steak and foie gras every night?

"Tired, You can't make that assumption about Baby P. He could have grown up to be a Surgeon. Who can say he wouldn't.
Not that poor little innocent lambs fault. He was born to that disgusting cunt as a mother.

Poor little Baby P suffered extreme emotional abuse as well as violence and neglect. He came from a family where there had been generations of abuse and neglect.

www.theguardian.com/society/2009/aug/16/baby-p-family

There is no way that little peter could have grown up to become a doctor unless he was adopted at birth. Its more than likely he would have followed in his family's footsteps.

I started this thread some time ago and it was shocking that there are people who want criminals or even their children to have no help whatsoever. (I don't mean people disagree wtih a pupil premium as a way of focussing help, but the principle of helping criminals.)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2502011-To-think-that-there-should-be-a-pupil-premium-to-help-schools-support-children-who-have-a-parent-in-prison

I don't believe in the death penalty but there are some people (that Australian man in Thailand making all the child abuse image for example) whose death I wouldn't shed any tears over.

because human beings cannot be trusted with these decisions

EVER

(we get it wrong, time after time- we are so flawed*

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVU

This.

ReallyTired

fuck me I have head ache after reading that article. Its just relentlessly grim isn't it

I also agree with your other thread too.

Sad to say, but I agree with ReallyTired - there is no way in hell Baby P would've grown up to be a surgeon and anyone who thinks so is living in cloud cuckooland.

Is anyone else feeling uncomfortable reading these comments about Baby P? It seems a bit tasteless to be saying that he would probably have grown to to be a criminal etc :(

I think you're missing the point.

I remember being outvoted on this one as a teen when I was at school. I was against the death penalty. I still am. While the death penalty feels like justice in the case of child rape/murder, serial killing, terrorist bombing and other such heinous crimes, it is actually state-sanctioned revenge. The desire to rip someone limb from limb for what they have done, and to feel that for someone who has abused and murdered a small child, being disembowelled and hung out to dry at Tyburn would be actually quite an appropriate punishment, is completely understandable. That would not make it right for the state to permit it. Justice can only be dispensed with a cool head.

The really big problem with the death penalty is that death is, well, final. And you can only dispense such a final punishment if you can say that you are certain about knowing the whole truth of the case. None of us knows the truth about these crimes. Even in the most open-and-shut of cases (Fred and Rose West, for example) no one can say that we know the truth about it, only that it's extremely likely. I don't consider it morally right to take someone's life on a likelihood. One mistaken conviction is one too many where the death penalty is concerned.

actually from a "respect for the dead" perspective I can see bumbleys point

I think the context is more "has he (Peter) survived and NOT been taken into SS, his future would have been likely very dire"

Well yes, that's what I mean and what ReallyTired meant too, I'm sure. But let's not derail the thread.

If someone raped and/or killed my child of course I would want them dead. I might actually even hurt or kill them myself.

Still against the death penalty though.

About Baby P the fact is sadly no one will ever know. Hes not here to prove anyone right or wrong, is he

Some very good points made. And also some that I disagree with on so many levels.

My point, is that we are all paying our taxes to keep these people in prison. Some can never be released, so we keep them well fed and with a roof over their head, for the rest of their life - for free. So, whilst they have lost their liberty, they have also gained in some way. They never have to work again. They never have to worry about money again. They get 3 square meals a day. They don't pay tax. They contribute NOTHING. They commit a serious crime and then suck off the rest of us until they die. Our war veterans and our Pensioners don't get treated that well.

Others are released, in the hope that they have rehabilitated. But some go on to kill again. Thanks for that. Thanks for releasing dangerous men back into the public arena. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420137/Revealed-The-12-convicted-murderers-freed-licence-kill-AGAIN-past-decade.html

Yes, I suppose we would sometimes get it wrong. I suspect that would be a minuscule number. Anyway, I did say, in cases where the crime had been proven without any doubt.

Of course some cases would not be worthy of death penalty - for eg. the battered woman that finally snaps and kills her partner. I wouldn't even put her away actually.

I wasn't condoning gory deaths. Just a lethal injection.

And...as law abiding, tax paying citizens, why should we all be put at risk every time a "rehabilitated" criminal is released, perhaps in your village or town. Maybe next door. Hey, maybe he'll date your daughter. Score.

Good job I'm not Prime Minister eh? I'd have the overcrowding problem solved over night tho!

I can't think of a worse life than one spent behind bars, with no agency at all. Unfulfilling, drifting, pointless, almost changeless, dull, mostly unstimulating, restricted, humiliating, infantilising, dehumanising.......

Isn't that bad enough?

I'm in several minds about this one.

I recently watched Trevor McDonald On Death Row. It was very interesting that he said he started off being very anti-death penalty, but after discovering what some of these people had done...

Also interesting viewing was Louis Theroux about the psychiatric facility in - I think it was - Indiana. There were people in there that had committed dreadful crimes, but the psychiatrists seemed hell bent on rehabilitating them such that they could be released. That was very worrying viewing.