To think we should bring back the Death Penalty for proven very serious offenders

[ILiveAtTheBeach]

They have raped and murdered. Yet, they have no money worries, a roof over their head, 3 square meals a day, Sky TV, PS4, arranged activities....why are we so bloody soft? We have an over crowding problem in jails. Why can't we give these monsters a lethal injection and be done with it? Sometimes they are released back into society under a false identity (to protect them). What about our protection? They could move in next door. Who would be up for getting rid?

They never have to work again. They never have to worry about money again. They get 3 square meals a day. They don't pay tax. They contribute NOTHING. They commit a serious crime and then suck off the rest of us until they die

They have no freedom. They can't be with family, they can't just decide to go off anywhere...Would you like that life? Sounds like you envy it.

I would rather they lost their liberty than kill them. It is a much worse punishment to have no control over your own life.

"Isn't that bad enough". Well no. It's not as bad as the Victims suffering is it
Small wonder the world is in such a state when we have people who feel more pity and compassion for the perpetrator than the victim.

Anyway, I did say, in cases where the crime had been proven without any doubt.
There is no such thing.

But some go on to kill again. Thanks for that.
Hence the need for proper rehabilitation

Just a lethal injection. It's still a gory death, they don't 'just' go to sleep.

Do try reading the article I posted earlier.

Small wonder the world is in such a state when we have people who feel more pity and compassion for the perpetrator than the victim.
Nobody has stated that they have no compassion for the victim, we were not however, discussing the victim, we are discussing the prison system as it currently stands.

Lethal injection is a gory death. That's why European countries have an embargo on shipping the drugs to the US.

And I really don't think anyone is prioritising criminals over victims. You can be humane towards someone without putting them top of your Christmas list.

Was just reading that 10 per cent of people on death row in the US are military veterans. Thought that was interesting.

Also happened to be reading a book earlier today that said only 2 per cent of people on death row actually get executed. (It was written 5 years ago though, so no idea how accurate that is now). It said the rest are on death row so long they end up dying of natural causes. I've read about some who are on death row a ridiculously long time - 20+years - before they get executed. What is the point? Unless it's just to psychologically torture them? I also read a very sad article about a victim's relative who was very angry that the execution kept getting postponed and postponed and postponed. They wanted revenge, they were told they were going to get it and yet it never happened. So they were left in limbo. I just know that sort of thing would happen here. Even if the death penalty was brought back, (which I honestly don't believe it ever will be - not in my lifetime anyway), I don't think any executions would actually take place. Maybe one or two of the notorious Ian Brady types otherwise judges and the government would wring their hands and say delay it. If you look at the countries that have the death penalty, they tend to have the worst human rights and violence records. I think the UK is too liberal now to ever go back. Plus I wonder who would actually want to be an executioner? I'm sure a lot of people would happily cheer that they could but I don't think when it came down to it they really could. Or it would really effect them. Because you can dehumanise murderers by calling them monsters but they are still people and I think to walk away from that without feeling something would be rather unusual.

Interestingly, the families of the criminals never get talked about. Now I'm very biased and selfish because I had someone close to me who is a serious offender. Not serious enough that he would ever have been executed in any country but I was very angry at the minimal sentence he got. I just plain don't have a lot of faith in the criminal justice system in this country and I would want a much, much better system than the one we've got before even contemplating trusting them to hand out death sentences. That said, I still wouldn't want to see the person who was close to me executed, regardless of what he'd done. I found the whole police investigation and court case traumatic enough without adding something like that in. A lot of people don't see it that way but would you really want your relative executed? You can say well they'd never murder anyone but you just never know. A lot of these criminals have children....I can't even contemplate the thought of being told the state was going to kill my parent, even if I thought they deserved it. Or god forbid my child.

If the best way to get 3 square meals a day is to commit a crime and go to prison, something is wrong with our economy/society.
No, it tells about the individual. It is the best way for some people.

I wonder how many men have thought "hmm I can't afford a gym membership. I know! I'll commit a crime just so I can get locked up and work out!"
Whoever posted this: are you not familiar with the phenomenon where (often homeless) people round this time of year break a shop-window and then wait for the police to arrive? Because if they are lucky, they get taken to a warm place, get a bed, treatment for their toes falling off from frostbite and infections; and they will have 3 square meals and a hot shower. No, you are right, they are not doing it for the gym.

Does anyone remember the US prison governor who made his prison no-nonsense? Took away tea and coffee because it has no nutritional value. Made the (male) prisoners wear pink underwear. Took away cable television. (He was legally challenged for this and was required to provide one channel, so he reinstated it with one channel - Disney :D). This kind of stuff. I think there is a lot that could be done to UK prisons.

If I was given the choice of life imprisonment or death at the hands of the state, I'd be tempted to go for the latter. As would many criminals eg Ian Brady. Why should we give them what they want?

phenomenon where (often homeless) people round this time of year break a shop-window and then wait for the police to arrive?

First, this is not the same as murdering someone to get in jail.
Second, it only shows how society and government is failing homeless people. And to be honest, if that's the case that they prefer jail than the streets, I wouldn't be surprised and good for them.

But it must be because jail is so desirable that murderers keep handing themselves in. Or not...

"
Does anyone remember the US prison governor who made his prison no-nonsense? Took away tea and coffee because it has no nutritional value. Made the (male) prisoners wear pink underwear. Took away cable television. (He was legally challenged for this and was required to provide one channel, so he reinstated it with one channel - Disney :D). This kind of stuff. I think there is a lot that could be done to UK prisons."

Why would you want to do this? What would it achieve? Loss of freedom rather than humilation should be punishment. Who cares what underwear a prisoner wears. I think that a prison uniform should be practical and comfortable for the inmates. I think the prison governor is abusing his powers.

If you want people to act like humans then you need to treat them like humans. Prison is to protect the public until such time a prisoner is no longer a risk in most cases. I feel that within a secure setting prisoners should lead a life that is as normal as possible. That is includes tea, coffee and possibly access to limited internet or TV on condition of good behaviour. There needs to be some luxuries so that there is a way to reward good behaviour or punish poor behavior. Reform requires a mixture of carrot and stick.

Whoever posted this: are you not familiar with the phenomenon where (often homeless) people round this time of year break a shop-window and then wait for the police to arrive? Because if they are lucky, they get taken to a warm place, get a bed, treatment for their toes falling off from frostbite and infections; and they will have 3 square meals and a hot shower. No, you are right, they are not doing it for the gym.

I'm honestly not sure whether this really happens or whether it's an urban legend, but there's a slight difference between a homeless person breaking a shop window to ensure they have somewhere to sleep for a bit and someone actually committing murder. I mean, the two offences would warrant different prisons for a start, surely?

I think a homeless person who breaks a shop window to get a bed for the night must be pretty desperate. Their mental health might be pretty questionable and its pychiatric bed for the night that is needed rather than a cell.

Unless there is a history of vandelism, community service would be more appriopiate (assuming the person does not sucessfully plead insanity).

Good job I'm not Prime Minister eh? I'd have the overcrowding problem solved over night tho!

I think you overestimate the power that the Prime Minister has, OP!

Plus, linking to a Daily Mail article to "prove" your point isn't exactly the way to win an argument but I'm sure you know that...

Another way to clear out over crowded prisons would be is to let the poor 5ft 1 women out who can't no matter how hard she works with the authorities get her 6ft 6 son to school, oh and while they're at it. Let the poor soul who can't pay their council tax out. That would undoubtedly free up a lot of spaces

prisonuk.blogspot.co.uk/

Excellent blog about the prison system by a former prisoner. I highly recommend reading it, and his latest post just happens to be about capital punishment.

Some of these posts
Ah yes the poor criminals.. Rapists, pedophile's, murderers.
Someone actually said " These men possibly "only" look at kiddie porn, Are someones father, brother partner" Now WTAF?!
If anyone abused my child, murdered my child I wouldn't give a flying fuck if they are someones brother or father!
I don't agree with the death penalty but there are so many sympathisers on this thread its making me sick.
The prisoners lose their liberty well boo fucking hoo. How about their victim/s?

Will they ever live a normal life after being raped or seriously hurt?

And to the woman who works with these monsters, how you can look them in the eye and feel anything but disgust is just baffling to me.

Lucy don't confuse thinking about the issues with sympathising. Nobody here thing murder and rape are just jolly japes that don't deserve punishment. It's the role of the state and the idea that prison is a holiday camp that people are taking issue with.
Practical issues cannot be ignored. Cost, mistakes, the ethics of the state as an instrument of revenge, the difficulties of procuring the means of execution and so on.
Think about Timothy Evans. A man whose wife and child were murdered. He was hanged for their murder. And he was not the man who murdered them. He had iirc mild SEN and was both innocent and the bereaved husband and father.
There are no words to explain how wrong the state got that one.

I wasn't condoning gory deaths. Just a lethal injection.

Take a look at the details of Clayton Lockett's execution by 'just' a lethal injection - it reads like something out of a horror script.

Some time ago there was a documentary presented by Michael portifillo looking at killing someone humanely and it is surprisingly difficult. The best method seemed to be hypoxia (suffocation) with nitrogen gas.

www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/broadband/tx/executions/lethal_injection/

Re overcrowding: as pp have said this could easily be alleviated by releasing/not imprisoning petty non violent criminals. With today's technology eg ankle bracelets they can have their freedoms restricted outwith the prison system. Even big financial crimes can be addressed by hitting em where it hurts their wallets!

I also think there is a problem with overcrowding due to some people who are imprisoned when a white male wouldn't be!

We also need to stop imprisoning victims of domestic violence who finally snap! That is not a crime as it is self defence! We're so behind on this here.

I would not want to live in a country with the death penalty again as per pp such countries have HIGHER not lower rates of violent crime and appalling human rights records (and I include USA in that).

BUT I do think serious violent (I consider csa as this) criminals should be imprisoned for life as in until their natural death.

A to prevent them committing further crimes and therefore creating more victims. So to protect the public.

B to punish them as they deserve.

C to provide justice for victims. They have to live with the consequences so should the perpetrators. Imho death is too good for them.

D if they are later shown to be innocent an innocent person has not been murdered by the state.

I think there should not be internet access as this would allow access to victims/porn/violent images to feed their fantasies.

But they should work in ways that contribute to the running of the prison. Have a gym, TV and library all basic and censored. But that is for the benefit of the guards not the inmates. So they don't get bored and riot.

The main problem with the judiciary in this country is that how you become a judge is time consuming and expensive therefore only the wealthy can afford to do so. This means that they don't have the same life experience as most of the population. They're also more likely to kowtow to govt.

Sentencing needs seriously reviewed in most cases too lenient for the violent and too stringent for financial crimes and crimes against govt. (Eg non payment of taxes and fines).

Too Gory to contemplate
Don't read if you are sensitive, this is harrowing stuff

Yes, it makes the guillotine seem kind.

In a way I suppose the guillotine is the kindest way to do it as its more or less instantaneous. Not that I'm advocating bringing it back!

It's also slightly worrying that several people on this thread seem unable to understand the difference between being against the death penalty and "sympathising" with murderers, paedophiles and rapists.

ReallyTired. What about the drugs used to euthanise patients?

Jesse Tafero

Executed in Florida in 1990 by electrocution. It took 3 shocks to kill him and 6 inch flames were erupting from his head.

Turns out he did not commit the crime for which he was executed. His fellow accused had her conviction and death penalty sentence overturned when another man admitted that he had been the one to shoot the police officer but alas too late for Tafero who had already been killed.

Not in my name.