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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to be upset about her termination?

527 replies

princesspineapple · 09/11/2015 19:47

I'm 21 weeks pregnant, and one of my best friends has just had a termination.
I'm all for pro-choice and it's her body etc etc... But she has basically used this as contraception (they've not used any protection for a year) and I don't really agree with that.
Putting aside my (and everyone's) feelings about her pregnancy choices... AIBU to be upset that she turned to me first in her "time of need"?
I've had MCs in the past, and am over the moon to be pregnant... So am finding it really hard to support her when she says things like "well it's only pea sized" when my little pea is now wriggling away in my belly!
Am I being a bit of an over-emotional pregnant lady and need to buck up and be a better friend, or is she actually being a cow?

OP posts:
IrishDad79 · 11/11/2015 10:01

Why don't women have the choice to terminate after 24 weeks in the UK?

bumbleymummy · 11/11/2015 10:04

"If you want an abortion, have one. If not, dont. "

I don't know why people think this is a good argument in the abortion debate. Imagine if it was used for something like "You don't like children being beaten? Don't beat your child." It just doesn't work. Of course people will have opinions about the rights and wrongs of something even when they choose not to do it themselves.

CallaLilli · 11/11/2015 10:16

That comparison is ludicrous but you do seem to specialise in the ludicrous so...

bumbleymummy · 11/11/2015 10:18

Why don't you explain why you think it's ludicrous rather than trying to make petty jabs. Or are people only allowed to contribute to this thread if you approve of them Calla?

witsender · 11/11/2015 10:20

You cannot compare the legal right to have autonomy over your own body (the right to not be pregnant) to the right to beat the body of another person. I would say that forcing another person to remain pregnant, go through labour and become a parent against their wishes is more akin to beating a child tbh.

If you want to put stipulations on how a conception occurred then you are not pro-choice.

bumbleymummy · 11/11/2015 10:25

There are plenty of other examples you could use as well. The idea that we all just stand back and say nothing/don't feel bothered about things that other people do as long as we don't do them ourselves is a bit silly to be honest and you only really see it when abortion is up for debate.

LetGoOrBeDragged · 11/11/2015 10:34

Surly, I believe that abortion is the ending of a human life. It is sometimes necessary and is better than bringing an unwanted child into the world but it is a sad thing for me and if a woman can avoid its necessity by bothering to use contraception, then sje should!

While I totally agree that it should always remain the woman's choice, regardless of the circumstances of conception, I do also think it's bloody irresponsible to get pg because someone cba to use contraception.

IrishDad after 24 weeks a foetus is considered able to survive outside the mother's body, which is why it is the cut off point for terminations

witsender · 11/11/2015 10:40

I disagree, I also see it used whenever religion is used to control the actions of those who don't believe. I.E Gay marriage.

bumbleymummy · 11/11/2015 10:48

Fair enough wits. I'll change my last sentence to I have only really seen it when abortion is up for debate. :)

sparechange · 11/11/2015 11:07

Can I just take this opportunity to remind people about the amazing work for the charity ASN (abortion support network), which helps women in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland get the abortions which are so cruelly denied to them by the medieval laws of their countries, as highlighted by a number of posters in this thread.

It was the chosen MN charity for their appeal a while back, and is still working tirelessly to help women who don't have the funds to fly themselves to England to get an abortion.

Until there is a level playing field for women's rights in the UK and Ireland, this charity will keep plugging the gap. Please help them in you can.

www.abortionsupport.org.uk/

IrishDad79 · 11/11/2015 12:04

Let Go or be Dragged
"after 24 weeks a foetus is considered able to survive outside the mother's body, which is why it is the cut off point for terminations"

So after 24 weeks the woman loses full autonomy over her body and loses the right to choose in the UK?

NameChange30 · 11/11/2015 12:13

IrishDad
At least we (women in the UK) have the choice up to 24 weeks. In many European countries the limit is 12 weeks, and in some countries it's not legally possible at all.

bumbleymummy · 11/11/2015 12:17

IrishDad, unless the foetus has a disability or the woman's life is in danger.

SurlyCue · 11/11/2015 12:19

Surly, I believe that abortion is the ending of a human life. It is sometimes necessary and is better than bringing an unwanted child into the world but it is a sad thing for me and if a woman can avoid its necessity by bothering to use contraception, then sje should!

You really need to separate out these two issues in your head. Needing an abortion doesnt change regardless of how the conception happened. When you are discussing abortion you are discussing pregnancies that already exist. It is absolutely pointless to talk about how that pregnancy came about in relation to the choice to abort! It has literally no bearing on the woman needing to abort. The time to talk about contraception is before conception or after the abortion. Judging and shaming has no place in the abortion debate. It serves no purpose other than to make the judger feel better about themselves.

LetGoOrBeDragged · 11/11/2015 12:21

IrishDad,in amswer to your question, pretty much yes. The exception is for cases where the baby has a condition where is would be so severely disabled it would be die shortly after birth or if the mother's life is in danger.

For me, I regard 24 weeks as a baby, so would not welcome the idea that people could routinely have abortions at this time.

Cerseirys · 11/11/2015 12:26

Are there other countries where abortion on demand (rather than for a medical reason) is legal after 24 weeks?

Gottagetmoving · 11/11/2015 12:27

I think it is ok to be 'pro choice' but also feel sad that some women can be so daft they choose not to bother with contraception and then create a need for an abortion.
I think OPs friend comes across as insensitive.
YANBU to be upset she came to you over this.

fusionconfusion · 11/11/2015 12:27

This.

"It is perfectly possible to be pro-choice and not be up to supporting someone through a termination".

Some of the aggression in the early posts on this thread is startling.

I am very pro-euthanasia for people with terminal illnesses, but as my father is currently dying and this is a sensitive topic for me, I wouldn't want to be personally involved in someone advocating for it right now.

I have a close relative who has lost two BABIES at 21 and 23 weeks and it would not be appropriate to tell her they are not BABIES in any conversation, regardless of my opinions on abortion and choice.

It's about context. What's true is not always what's wisest, kindest or most compassionate and those things trump being right, nearly always.

LetGoOrBeDragged · 11/11/2015 12:28

Actually Surly, people are affected by societal views. So as a society we have to decide if it is okay to say a woman is reasonable to not bother with contraception and have an abortion if necessary. For me it is not.

Otoh, if people are made to feel that it is unacceptable to not bother with contraception (something which many women in the world would desperately love to have), perhaps they will use it in future and avoid the need for another abortion. That is the better outcome imo.

bumbleymummy · 11/11/2015 12:30

LetGo, "The exception is for cases where the baby has a condition where is would be so severely disabled it would be die shortly after birth..."

No, it doesn't have to be a severe disability that would result in death shortly after birth.

LetGoOrBeDragged · 11/11/2015 12:36

Really? Can someone abort post 24 weeks if the baby has any disability?

SurlyCue · 11/11/2015 12:37

Actually Surly, people are affected by societal views. So as a society we have to decide if it is okay to say a woman is reasonable to not bother with contraception and have an abortion if necessary. For me it is not.

You seem to be missing the point i am making. When you are discussing abortion, you are discussing a pregnancy that already exists. Can you please tell me who you are aiming to help by questioning or passing judgement on how the conception cane about for a pregnancy that is already happening? Contraception is not a pregnancy option. Contraception is for people who are not pregnant. Someone who is pregnant has no need for contraception. They have no need to hear contraceptive options. They have no need to hear judgement about their contraceptive choices. They need pregnancy options. Contraception has no place in an abortion debate. It is entirely irrelevant. Contraception becomes the issue when that person is no longer pregnant. That is the time to discuss contraception.

sparechange · 11/11/2015 12:43

Letgo
The wording of the act is:
"that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped"

KidLorneRoll · 11/11/2015 12:43

Nobody "uses abortion as contraception", because that's a stupid thing to say. Whether or not someone used contraception before going for an abortion is entirely irrelevant to any debate about whether abortion should be legal.

The point which pro-life types always, always ignore is that banning abortion doesn't make it go away. It just makes abortion more dangerous. Pro-life has nothing to do with safe guarding life, it's entirely about punishing women they see as immoral.

bumbleymummy · 11/11/2015 12:45

LetGo, it's 'serious' physical or mental abnormalities but they don't have to cause death shortly after birth. DS being one of the more obvious examples of a disability that people will abort for but wouldn't necessarily cause death shortly after birth.

What is considered a 'serious' disability is up for debate I guess.