...to be upset about her termination?

[princesspineapple]

I'm 21 weeks pregnant, and one of my best friends has just had a termination.
I'm all for pro-choice and it's her body etc etc... But she has basically used this as contraception (they've not used any protection for a year) and I don't really agree with that.
Putting aside my (and everyone's) feelings about her pregnancy choices... AIBU to be upset that she turned to me first in her "time of need"?
I've had MCs in the past, and am over the moon to be pregnant... So am finding it really hard to support her when she says things like "well it's only pea sized" when my little pea is now wriggling away in my belly!
Am I being a bit of an over-emotional pregnant lady and need to buck up and be a better friend, or is she actually being a cow?

For every housing site commisioned there has to by law be a percentage which is allocated to housing association and affordable accomodation. I know this because my dp builds these houses

Depends where you live in the UK. Not sure what it's like elsewhere, but up here the developers get around that by paying a (nominal) amount into the affordable housing pot - which ensures the executive housing development doesn't attract the 'undersirables' while the affordable houses get built elsewhere

I'm really struggling to understand why anyone would prefer a person become dependant on state support for both them and the child they didnt want to have rather than end the pregnancy and carry on with their life as normal. People saying "its not the end of the world to have the baby" no, but its the end of the life you wanted and could have if you werent forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. Just because it isnt the worst thing that could happen doesnt mean it should just be accepted. We have options. Life doesnt have to be hard. If there is a way to make it easier and you can and want to take it then why the hell not?

Yes, Surly, we do have options. In this situation, the woman had the option to use contraception to prevent this pregnancy that she did not want. Surely using contraception would be 'easier' than an abortion?

I hear ya AnotherEmma and Surlycue :)

urely using contraception would be 'easier' than an abortion?

FFS. Can we all stop this implication that women pass over using contraception because they prefer to have an abortion. Someone on this thread even said their mate actually said that

This is not a useful argument to have when someone is already pregnant. In fact it's just seems to be an opportunity to be self righteous and holier than thou

Bubbley we are talking about a pregnancy that already exists and the options available. If time machines were available then of course it would be an option to go back in time and use contraception but as technology isnt quite there yet we have to work with what we have which is either continue pregnancy or end pregnancy.

I don't think a MN thread has ever made me rage so much probably because I'm one of those slutty slutty slut-bags that's had two abortions and should have been punished with unwanted parenthood

To the OP, YANBU in how you feel and you're definitely not the best audience for your friend right now. This 'size of a pea' stuff is neither here nor there, it is entirely dependant on the wishes of the mother-or-not-to-be: it can be a very much wanted pea which is the beginnings of life; or it can be something that's basically frogspawn with no functioning nervous system yet. It depends entirely on the mother's POV.

I am a bit at your apparent knowledge of her sex life/contraceptive usage though. It could be for any number of reasons, even dumb ones like using the rhythm method. As I say, I don't doubt that it happens with some women, but having been through two (early) surgical terminations, I can safely say it's not exactly a walk in the fucking park, and that any woman who is using abortion as a form of v late contraception probably has some sort of mental illness - and is thus not exactly a candidate for Mother of the Year anyway!

Surly, I'm pointing it out because you said: "Life doesnt have to be hard. If there is a way to make it easier and you can and want to take it then why the hell not? "

Yet no one seems to be allowed to comment on the fact that this woman decided not to 'make her life easier' by using contraception in the first place. It's ok to say 'why not have an abortion if you can?' but not 'why not use contraception if you can?'.

Snuffley, I find it a strange idea that what something is can be entirely based on a woman's perception of it.

One of the reasons I find this so interesting is that on vaccination threads people often rant about those who choose not to vaccinate - "It's freely available, it prevents unwanted diseases, why wouldn't you take it?" and "There are mothers in some countries who would give anything to have their child vaccinated." Yet here we are with freely available contraception, something which women in some countries would give anything to have access to, and we don't have people ranting and expressing the same judgement of women who turn it down.

YANBU op.

A pregnant woman is not the right audience for someone to discuss their recent abortion with IMO and she was very insensitive and unreasonable.

Yet no one seems to be allowed to comment on the fact that this woman decided not to 'make her life easier' by using contraception in the first place.

What? This thread has done nothing but admonish her for that! And again not very constructive thing to say when someone is actually pregnant. Not like you'd say "Sue is pregnant but didn't mean to be so I mentioned that she should have used contraception. Well, she had never though of doing that and says what a fabulous idea! Look, there she is now, hopping in her time machine!"

It's ok to say 'why not have an abortion if you can?' but not 'why not use contraception if you can?'

Umm because you cant use contraception to end a pregnancy. When you are pregnant contraception can do nothing for you. As I said, The options are continue the pregnancy or end the pregnancy. Preventing the pregnancy cant happen. I'm not sure how you cant understand this.

Contraception and vaccinations are two different subjects. They arent comparable.

Yes but bumbley you wouldn't say to the mother of a child who had measles "well you should have got the vaccination" and then prevent them from getting it cured, as some sort of bizarre punishment for not doing as they should have

Oh surly, you're being deliberately obtuse. I'm not saying she should go back in time or end her pregnancy with contraception. I'm talking about what seems to be acceptable to say on this thread vs what is not acceptable to say.

And the points I made above re vaccination show that they are comparable in some ways.

Piper, no one is saying that to this woman either. I'm just making the point that it seems 'acceptable' to criticise/judge someone's decision to turn down one freely available option but not another.

Oh surly, you're being deliberately obtuse. I'm not saying she should go back in time or end her pregnancy with contraception. I'm talking about what seems to be acceptable to say on this thread vs what is not acceptable to say.

But you said it in response to my comment about the options available regarding someone who is pregnant. Why did you respond to my comment if your response wasnt about what I was talking about?

Excellent point Piper
"Yes but bumbley you wouldn't say to the mother of a child who had measles "well you should have got the vaccination" and then prevent them from getting it cured, as some sort of bizarre punishment for not doing as they should have"

She should have used contraception, but since she didn't, she should be allowed to have an abortion. Perhaps the experience will make her more likely to use contraception next time.

The anti-abortionists seem to be assuming that every unplanned pregnancy is a result of unprotected sex. Sometimes it's a result of contraception failure. Not that there should be any kind of moral hierarchy IMO, but what about women who did use contraception and it failed? Do you want to punish them too?

Fair enough Surly. Your comment triggered a thought process about the acceptability of certain comments on this thread about choices available. I thought I had made it clear that that was what I was referring to so your comments about time machines and using contraception to end pregnancy seemed a deliberate misinterpretation.

Is that really common? the coming together of someone forgetting they've had unprotected sex or missed a pill, combined with continued bleeding and no symptoms.. for months? i can think of twice i've heard of it and it's made national news..

You don't have to miss a pill to get pregnant on the pill, AFAIK. So that extends the Venn diagram beyond the 'silly girls not remembering they've missed a pill' scenario.

A 16 year old girl in my year at school got pregnant and only found out/managed to get the ball rolling after it was too late. I don't know whether she was on the pill or not, though. The sister of another girl in my year discovered she was pregnant when she gave birth on the toilet. I heard the sister relating this story, so I doubt it was an urban legend.

When I say I heard the sister relating it, I mean the girl who had a sister who gave birth. Obviously if it was the girl who gave birth herself I would be even more sure of the veracity of it.

The issue of whether or not someone took precautions really is irrelevant in these debates. There are always ways people find themselves pregnant, despite precautions. We need those people to have bodily autonomy.

Totally agree. It is completely irrelevant how someone got pregnant. They all get to have the same options for how to deal with the pregnancy.

Why is it that women say they are 'pro-choice' that they are expected to also be out and proud supporters of abortion?

I can never imagine myself wanting an abortion myself, and as someone who had miscarriages myself, I don't believe I am the right person to support someone else making that choice for themselves.

But I'm quite ok with women making their choices, would never say anything unsupportive to someone in that place in their lives, and were this be a topic that required a vote, I'd tick the 'let women have control over their own bodies' box. Why can't that be good enough for people?

Agreed, midnite. I can 100% support a woman's right to abortion without being entirely happy about the circumstances in which she finds herself requiring one. It doesn't mean I want to limit her right to have it!

I really dont see how the circumstances under which she found herself needing an abortion are relevant AT ALL to her needing one. Why is "path to conception" even mentioned when it comes to abortion? Everytime there is a thread on abortion there are always people who want to bring up how the woman got pregnant. How is that relevant to the abortion debate? If you want an abortion, have one. If not, dont. How you got pregnant has no bearing on whether you need one or not.