...to be upset about her termination?

[princesspineapple]

I'm 21 weeks pregnant, and one of my best friends has just had a termination.
I'm all for pro-choice and it's her body etc etc... But she has basically used this as contraception (they've not used any protection for a year) and I don't really agree with that.
Putting aside my (and everyone's) feelings about her pregnancy choices... AIBU to be upset that she turned to me first in her "time of need"?
I've had MCs in the past, and am over the moon to be pregnant... So am finding it really hard to support her when she says things like "well it's only pea sized" when my little pea is now wriggling away in my belly!
Am I being a bit of an over-emotional pregnant lady and need to buck up and be a better friend, or is she actually being a cow?

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

The bottom line here is that the friend didn't bother (nor her partner so he's just as irresponsible) to sort out contraception for A WHOLE YEAR before she fell pg by mistake. So I'm afraid while she has the right to have a termination because she doesn't want the baby/isn't in a position to have one/whatever the reason, the RIGHT to have a termination should also be balanced with being RESPONSIBLE enough to try and prevent the inevitable happening in the first place

I'm incredibly responsible and I am not ttc yet I have not used any form of medical contraception for just under 12 months as well I am better protected against pregnancy without using pills and what not than I am using it.

[twofingerstoGideon]

Bumbley - it's very tiresome arguing with you. I haven't accused you of ranting anywhere. You accused me of ranting - after I posted a single post, containing data about unsafe abortions. Please don't put words into my mouth. My point, which I'm sure is clear to anyone without an agenda to promote, was to highlight the fact that whatever the perceived rights and wrongs of termination, there is always demand and lack of access results in unsafe practice. You chose to describe this as a 'rant', presumably for your own self-serving reasons.

This thread was about whether OP should be used as a 'sounding board' by her friend (in fact, I feel this is very tactless of her friend) and you've made almost 40 posts on this one thread arguing against the principle of abortion - hence my 'hijack' comment.

[bumbleymummy]

"you've made almost 40 posts on this one thread arguing against the principle of abortion - hence my 'hijack' comment."

No, actually, I haven't. So you obviously didn't read my posts. My very first post was purely to do with the friend being insensitive towards the OP - unlike many of the other posts which said she wasn't pro-choice and which are the reason the discussion has change to what it is. Why aren't you saying anything about them? Oh yes, they're pro-choice so you don't have any problem with them expressing their opinions even if they aren't exactly on topic And you could have made your point about

[bumbleymummy]

Sorry - early post

You could have made your point about unsafe abortions without bringing IrishDad and me into it or without your hijack comment so don't try to make out like you didn't have an agenda. It's pretty obvious that you wanted to make a few jibes not simply make a point.

[twofingerstoGideon]

If you say so, Bumbley.
I don't have an 'agenda'. I believe in freedom of choice and don't see a belief in autonomy as an 'agenda', whereas I see those who seek to restrict the rights and actions of others as very much having an agenda.

I am a realist and recognise that restricting the rights to abortion does not make the issue disappear, as borne out by World Health Organisation data. On the other hand, anti-choicers seem to think that a change in law will result in no demand for this service. It won't. It will just make things difficult and dangerous for women. I don't know if this is ignorance on the part of anti-choicers or a refusal to acknowledge facts. Perhaps it's just a manifestation of their low opinion of women.

I don't intend to get into a tit-for-tat argument with you, bumbley. I know your views of old and am familiar with all your arguments. I'm not going to engage with you anymore.

[bumbleymummy]

I'm fine with that two fingers. It's obvious what your intention was when you singled me out. Personally, I find that kind of behaviour somewhat childish and petty but each to their own. It's great that some people on this thread are above that kind of nonsense. Have a lovely afternoon.

[sparechange]

Irish
Without getting into a semantic debate of what 'rights' mean, yes and no.

You could say that the tree at the end of my garden has 'rights' because I can't cut it down without permission from the council. You could also argue that a fetus has 'rights' because abortions are only legally allowed in certain circumstances.

I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make though? Perhaps you could tell us?

[LeaveTheHamster]

I presume your friend knows you are pregnant. I think you are being hugely insensitive talking about your pregnancy with a friend who you know is suffering with an unwanted pregnancy, have some tact.

Or at least stop judging what other people do with their bodies based on your wishes for your own. That cuts both ways.

[bumbleymummy]

The friend has had an abortion and is asking the OP about recovery times based on her experience of a miscarriage. It's not quite what you are describing

[LetGoOrBeDragged]

Hamster that was a really nasty thing to say to the OP, even if you are just trying to make a point.

[motherinferior]

No, it wasn't 'hugely nasty'. You mean 'I didn't like it'.

[SmillasSenseOfSnow]

Also struggling to see what was remotely 'nasty' about it.

[LetGoOrBeDragged]

It was nasty because there is nothing in the OPs posts to suggest she has been talking about her own pg to her friend once she knew her friend was terminating.
Whereas there is plenty of comversation going on from the friend about recovery times post abortion, knowing the OP lost a pg at the same number of weeks and talking about the 'insignificant' size of the foetus.
It just seemed unnecessarily mean to have a go at the OP when there is no indication that she has been anything other than kind, even though she is finding it personally difficult.

[bumbleymummy]

I agree with you LetGo.

[CottonSock]

I think it was really nasty. I hope you are nicer in real life

[LeaveTheHamster]

I am kind enough in real life not to confuse the opposite of a terrible situation with a good one. Drowning is not necessarily better than dying of thirst. Losing a pregnancy is not necessarily worse than having to deal with the impact of falling pregnant at a time where you cannot for whatever reason fall pregnant.

The friend has likely said the thing about the size to reassure herself. Ending a pregnancy can be traumatic and she might be a bit wrapped up in her own pain at the moment.

I am genuinely sorry if I hurt the OP. I was just trying to highlight that she WAS being judgmental about another woman choice based on her own situation and that was unfair AND in a way that NEVER happens the other way around. You never get a woman who's mad at her friend for struggling to conceive whilst she's seeking abortion because abortion is still considered shameful.

Either friends support each other in fertility issues, from pregnancy to miscarriage to birth or we assign a moral hierarchy to fertility choices. A woman is allowed to grieve as hard for an abortion as a miscarriage just as she is allowed to feel relieved when her period arrives 8 days late.

[roundaboutthetown]

No, you were just nasty, Hamster. It was stupid of the friend to seek solace from a pregnant friend who had suffered miscarriages and to remind her of the miscarriages while she is pregnant and hoping not to lose her current pregnancy. If I'd just had a miscarriage, I wouldn't think a friend who had just had an abortion would be the best choice of person to support me in my sorrow any more than the other way round. You don't look for support from people who might not be in an emotional position to support you.

[Gothgirl78]

I agree roundabout and also the poster who said it was like discusing your amazing holiday with someone who's struggling to pay for their weekly shop. I'd support a friend through abortion now but would have struggled when pregnant or recovering from my miscarriage.

I've said it before. I'm 100% pro choice up to 24 weeks but I do think some posters deliberately target bumbley. I don't agree with most of her views but admire her for sticking to her guns and not being scared off toeing the mumsnet line.

[LeaveTheHamster]

OK I'm sorry, clearly I was being a dick, but I still feel like there's a really strong anti-abortion judgement in the OP's post and n the general thread. I was being nasty but I am personally very affected by abortion shaming rhetoric. I wasn't really thinking about the OP when I posted but trying to highlight to users on the thread that fertility stigma only cuts one way for a reason.

Ironically I ended up coming down on someone in an emotional manner for acting in an emotional manner. That's my bad and I should have been nicer, but abortion stigma kills and the OP and others shouldn't be so judgmental.

Apologies to anyone I've upset.

[CottonSock]

You do sound sincere hamster and its nice that you apologised. As someone who's had 4 miscarriages myself all I can say is that it's a very cruel thing and does change you in a little way (as I'm sure abortion does too) . It doesn't mean that you become anti abortion, but lots of things in life become painful and you have to learn to live with that. The op did ask aibu I guess, but I felt the tone of the thread was getting very unfair to her. Maybe she's long gone by now, but I think this thread could affect a lot of people reading in the future. Be kind everyone

[LetGoOrBeDragged]

Hi hamster. We have probably all posted at one time or another and then had regrets. I know I have. It was nice of you to come back.

[roundaboutthetown]

I agree, it was good of Hamster to come back and explain her viewpoint in a kinder fashion and to apologise for any upset caused. I think, just as Hamster wasn't thinking of the OP when she posted, the OP wasn't thinking of other women who had been through abortions when she posted, just about her particular friend's insensitivity. It wasn't the OP's intention for the thread to go along the lines it did. So yes, normally reasonable people getting a bit emotional sums it up!

[GingerChameleon]

When I had a termination at 9 weeks the first and only person my partner and I told was my sister. She was pregnant at the time after several miscarriages and 6 years of trying to conceive. Even though she had always desperately wanted a child, envied anybody who had children, judged anybody who mistreated their children (whether they actually were or just in her opinion) and tried hard without success for so many years (her pregnancy was incredibly difficult and the whole thing was touch and go until the very end), she was incredibly supportive of me. She came to my appointments with me (except the actual procedure, when my partner came with me) and was there to talk to me about things I felt I couldn't discuss with my partner.

There is absolutely no reason you cannot be there for your friend. I'm sure she understands everything you've been through, just as she would expect you to understand what she is going through. Your stories are different and her choices don't affect you.

[Montejaquena]

Surly Cue

"That is a personal opinion."

Yes it is, as is every other comment on this thread .

YANBU. Your friend is being insensitive and you don't have to feel guilty about not being the person in this situation who can offer her support - relax, enjoy your pregnancy and know that your friend will find others to help her through this time.

Supporting the legal right to abortion for women is NOT the same as being unable to feel regret or upset about a termination. Pretty obvious.

[ghostyslovesheep]

yes thanks for bumping a 6 month old thread to share