WIBU to have slapped his face?

[BMW6]

This afternoon a man (mid fifties) in the street said to me "excuse me darlin' but can I tell you you've got really impressive tits"

Without any thought I slapped his face and gave him a raging dressing down - he just stood there stunned looking and mumbled "sorry darlin'" (which enraged me all the more)

I am conflicted - part of me is horrified that I reacted violently, the other part is still fuming and kind of glad I slapped him.

Did I over-react?

but also

BrendaFlange Actually Scremer you have made me proper annoyed with that comment.

Tough. And heres a little reminder. Not everyone fits into your little world of black or white. There are other races in the world. Try living in a country as a foreigner.

We are actually talking about self defence here. No-one is in a position to make any definite rules as to how someone may behave in a situation. If you are the sort of man who goes about making offensive sexual That is the job of the courts. comments, its not unreasonable to encounter that one or two people who might react, whether that be out of fear or nervousness or aggression, with violence.

I certainly have, and it didn't do me any harm, because I got rid of an stalker who was escalating his behaviour. It was incredibly effective. Given the choice and the ineffectiveness of the courts in dealing with male on female violence, I hope I react the same way again if I suffer, or am under threat of suffering violence.

And yes, I'd rather serve an unfair sentence than be raped or murdered or injured.

If you can link to a case report where a woman definitively acting in self defence was convicted and sentenced harshly, it would be interesting to read the court's reasoning.

OP did not slap him and run. She slapped him and was confident enough to stand there and give him a good telling off. I don't think she felt threatened at all. She felt angry and hit him in anger not fear.
Her instinct was to lash out and that is not acceptable.

YABU, hitting him was a massive overreaction. I would just have told him to leave me alone (or fuck off on a bad day.) I understand that unwanted attention can be upsetting but being physically aggressive towards someone who wasn't a physical threat to you was disproportionate. You are lucky he didn't call the police. This isn't a self defence issue. What he said was inappropriate but not a threat. If there is reason you reacted violently, such as anger issues or a previous traumatic experience, consider counselling.

Scremer - you used violence once, when a man had been stalking you regularly and had physically bumped into you and was coming to bump you again.

This is completely different to the situation the OP describes. Your stalkers behaviour was physical towards you.

You know nothing about how big or small my world is, what countries I live/d in and what circumstances. And your understanding, or experience of the situation as regards people subject to racist comments in the street is very different to mine if you think people subject to racists comments can hit out without legal redress.

I think many of us - probably most - would be prepared to face an unfair conviction than be a victim of rape, but in the example the OP describes there really is no indication that rape was the next move. wrt the man who stalked you, the way you describe it I would be far more concerned that his motives were sinister, and would act in self defence.

This thread is about the OP's situation, not you, not me, so from my side I'm leaving it there.

but being physically aggressive towards someone who wasn't a physical threat to you

In a lot of ways if a man puts his hand on your breast or bum that isn't a physical threat either, is it?

Men that feel free to make such lewd comments to random females do so because they think women are defenseless little creatures and are showing how easily they can do whatever they want. That is where, IMHO, the women who are not intimidated and retaliate are doing all women a favour.

Scremer - you used violence once, when a man had been stalking you regularly and had physically bumped into you and was coming to bump you again.

And having hit someone back once and found out how easy and effective it was and how much power and strength I had (I nearly knocked him over and he stayed where he'd been pushed to, looking shocked) I'd certainly hope I'd do the same again if I felt threatened. FWIW he had previously assaulted me another time too and I was probably more prepared from that happening.

You can't really predict how you will react in any situation, and it depends on multiple factors from whether there are many people around, presence of escape routes and risk of violence escalating, but thinking about possible responses and how appropriate they might be in a given situation is actually quite sensible. I would hope at any rate I wouldn't freeze and do nothing and let violence happen to me.

Courts are generally ineffective at dealing with male on female violence, especially rape and stalking, and I'd rather run my risk with any legal consequences than be a silent victim.

Even in the OP's situation, I really rather doubt a court would convict a nice middle class woman with no previous convictions who was so shocked by a man's lewd comment that she slapped his face. Its all to do with reasonable force surely. Again, please can someone link to a case report where a woman in a comparable situation has been convicted of assault, or are these terrible consequences for natural retaliation merely an urban myth?

"In a lot of ways if a man puts his hand on your breast or bum that isn't a physical threat either, is it?"

Yes, it is! Groping, rubbing themselves up against you on the tube, putting hands inside clothing, touching anything other than an arm or a hand in an accepted social greeting, kissing or trying to kiss you - not necessarily a 'threat' in terms of breaking your bones but a sexual intrusion / assault. I would physically re-buff someone who did any of these things.

I have carried on watching the thread. I have already shared my thoughts and still stand by my opinion. I am just wondering. For those that think slapping someone under the circumstances is fine and you would have done the same, maybe gone a little further from what I have read. Where do you draw the line? When is physical violence (slapping, hitting, punching etc.) crossing the line? When does it become unacceptable for you?

I am mixed race and have briefly seen the posts regards racism. The most insulting thing ever said to me was about 20 years ago in my early 20s by a woman. She called me a half bread! I didn't smack her then and wouldn't smack her today because I believe it's crossing a line. I treated her with the contempt someone like her deserves in my opinion.

Breed not bread.

Gotta, yes, I'm aware of women on a night out in a group being loud and verbally aggressive.

I still think there's a clear difference though. In this case, it was broad daylight, everyone was (presumably) sober, NOT on a night out but going about their business. This man thought it was perfectly OK in that context to make a casual comment of a sexual nature about the OP's physical appearance.

It reminds me of a case recounted in Polly Vernon's recent book, when, again in broad daylight, a man asked her 'quite as if he was asking me the time' if she took it up the arse.

Not at all the same as people who are drunk and yelling late at night.

This DOESN'T mean I condone people (of either sex) going around on nights out shouting sexualised shite at people.

But I'd put money on it being men who do the vast majority of this casual daytime leering and commenting.

This DOESN'T mean I condone people (of either sex) going around on nights out shouting sexualised shite at people. But I'd put money on it being men who do the vast majority of this casual daytime leering and commenting

You would condone slapping people though?
It's just as bad drunk as it is sober, it's not different, being drunk is not a defence.. As I said before, OP was not frightened, she was angry. She quite rightly gave him a piece of her mind. Where she went wrong was deciding she could inflict a slap as punishment. We can't personally decide who deserves a slap based on our own level of what we will tolerate. Well, we can, but we must accept any consequences that come our way.

No I would not have slapped his face, in case he hit back harder.

I'd have just said that I could tell just by that remark that he had a half inch knob and walked on

Teenage girls and and women on a night out does not compare with the daily onslaught that younger women, especially, are subjected to. Often by groups of men, but probably even more frequently by lone men, which is just as intimidating in its own way.

I can't see I see many examples of lone women sexually harassing men, intimidating them by their mere (bigger) physical presence. But no doubt someone will rush on now to say they see it all the time...

Well, we can, but we must accept any consequences that come our way.

Well, the same could be said for the men who think they're entitled to cat call, etc, in the first place.

Look, I know tit for tat is ridiculously immature and is not a genuine response to the situation - but there seems to be this firm belief that if you antagonise a man, you can expect a response (probably physical), but an antagonised woman must turn the other cheek and be the better person.

I don't think you have to be the better person, in the sense that he deserved a mouthful of abuse (which is what he got). But hitting someone is escalation, which isn't right no matter how tempting. At the end of the day though, I think the OP just reacted. Not her finest moment but then it wasn't his either.

I think it's GREAT that the OP gave him a right mouthful - the clearer and louder the better so that he was shamed.

You don't have to accept or turn the other cheek- a strong assertive challenge is good. But losing control and going OTT is not assertive.

Look, I know tit for tat is ridiculously immature and is not a genuine response to the situation - but there seems to be this firm belief that if you antagonise a man, you can expect a response (probably physical), but an antagonised woman must turn the other cheek and be the better person.

Those men are also typically arrested for assault if a report is made. Men might hit more, but then again there's more men than women in prison for assault. You might want to look at those numbers, as the law certainly doesn't condone that.

Women don't have to turn the other cheek, but picking a fight with someone well above your weight class is just stupid. There are only a few circumstances in which I would be willing to fight, but frankly by that point I'm already in a lose-lose situation.

I certainly would not risk injury over a stupid cat call, I would let them know I didn't appreciate it though. I find that generally a short quip and raised eyebrow does the trick. My go to is typically "Really? That's how its going to be today?" and then staring at them unimpressed at their reply before walking off without another word.

Generally though, if a guy says a form of hello that does not involve references to my body, I just return the greeting and say hello back. It's not my job to shrink away from them. I understand they would not be giving "friendly" greetings to men, but I like to reclaim my space by let them know I own it and not them, and we're speaking now on my terms.

You were perfectly reasonable. He's completely gross and has probably been saying shit like that to women for years and getting away with it.

I slapped a (very drunk) man for pushing and pestering me and my friend once :o (He also randomly kissed my fiancee) Never thought of it as assault, seems a bit overdramatic to me.. I do think you were in the wrong to slap him, but he sort of deserved it :P You were both in the wrong!

Scremer
Obviously I could not disagree more with your views

Luckily I am not saying this to you face to face given your attraction to physical violence

"picking a fight with someone well above your weight class is just stupid"

Which is exactly how this type of man gets away with sexually harassing women. The knowledge that a man can headbutt us and send us to A&E if he wants to is what keeps us quiet, compliant and accepting of such crap.

It is "culturally" acceptable for a woman to slap a man in the face in a situation like this: in the same way that it is "culturally" acceptable for a woman to chuck a drink in a man's face. Frankly, as long as it is still "culturally" acceptable for men to make that kind of comment to random women, then I'm all for men getting slapped in the face.

Wow! Really? Where in the UK is it culturally acceptable for women to slap faces and chuck drinks?

I agree it is a cultural norm for many men to cat call women, but whereas it isn't rare i don't think many people consider commenting on a strangers tits in the street to be 'acceptable '

Op I think you've lowered yourself to his level by slapping him. You're now both in the wrong. If you'd just given him a good telling off, you would have the moral high ground. But you assualted him, so now you don't.