Feel dreadful after really upsetting my parents but don't think IABU?

[Fieryfighter]

Warning... It's a Christmas post. I've spent every Christmas of my life at my parents, pre and post having children, when I was married I always went to them as ExH didn't celebrate Christmas. I usually go to theirs on Christmas eve and leave the morning after boxing day. My kids have often mentioned wanting to have a Christmas at home as they never get to be at their houhouse and I also would like to spend some time at my house, and I only live about 25 mins from them.

I was at my folks with ds2 yesterday and whilst talking about Christmas I mentioned that the boys had said they wanted to have a Christmas at home, and that the boys had mentioned this a few times over the years so I was thinking maybe we could have Christmas morning at home then go over to my folks later that morning. I want for a minute suggesting we don't go to them at all, just that we'd go over later Christmas morning.

Basically they got really really upset, sobbing and everything, dad saying that there was no point putting up a tree if we're not going to be there (I said every year I decorate my house and never get to spend Christmas there), that they might as well just go away for Christmas etc etc. My sister and her son will be there Xmas eve and Christmas day so they won't be along I couldn't placate then at all and ds2 (9) got upset and was crying. They said they were really stressed about their nightmare neighbours and the house not selling (neighbours are really vile) and they hate being in their house and just don't want to be at home and the only thing they look forward to is us coming over (we visit every week).

Anyway, horrible atmosphere cotinued, I popped upstairs for 5 mins thinking if I left the room they'd make an effort with ds2 but they just sat on sofa mum quietly sobbing taking between themselves, ds2 said in car on way home it was really awkward (wish I hadn't gone upstairs now but I really thought they'd buck up and play with him or something)

Anyway, when I came down they said it would need better if we left as it was no good for ds2 so we did. I did tell them very gently I really didn't mean to upset them but I thought they were overreacting then dad got angry again so we left.

They are very good at making me feel guilty and I usually do what they want tbh. My sister is a complete PITA and behaves dreadfully towards them with no repercussions so I'm there 'good' one who's always there for them.

Hang on in there OP, you are doing the right thing. I know how hard it is.

I find it helpful to imagine the worst that could happen if I upset someone (however much they brought it on themselves). Simply put, the worst is that they will be upset! It is not fatal. Shouting and over reactions are not fatal. Reading a stroppy email is not the end of the world.

I don't know if that makes sense written down, but it does help me. I am a people pleaser too.

I am very sorry it has come to this, but I did expect that it would. There is no reasoning with them. I agree that no engagement in discussion or argument will alter their thinking, so the neutral reply above is most appropriate 'I have noted your comments. My position remains the same.' It will infuriate them, but whatever the response is will be at their instigation and not in reply to your defence of your choices.

What is your gut feeling at the moment about how things will run on Christmas day, if they don't apologise? Because I think they will never admit that they are wrong. Could it be the reason your DSIS is the way she is around them? She seems to understand all too well the current situation. No wonder sometimes she chose to go away for Christmas. Someone upthread said invite her and her DS to yours for Christmas, actually a very good idea. Your parents will learn what happens when they push someone too far and are not part of the celebrations, and they will have to stop taking your cooking for granted, because they will have to do their own or go out. I think you'll find what a relaxing time you will have without having to tread on eggshells or make sure everyone is happy.

If you do decide not to go to your parents at all, make sure they know it is your decision and not the DS'. Something along the lines of 'I have decided that we will be at home for Christmas eve and all of Christmas day, therefore you will be making your own arrangements for food over Christmas as I will not be cooking for you.' (And why would you after all this gyro they are giving you?)

Aggro not gyro, although they could have a kebab for Christmas lunch if they wanted.

Wow, just Wow at their selfishness.

They say they love and care about their gc but all they care about is themselves.

Imo it is long overdue for you to deal with their manipulation. Thankfully they haven't started on your dc yet, but they tried.

I would not be able to resist pulling out of Christmas full stop. You have the patience of a saint, but then you have been manipulated for decades and are used to keeping the peace as you fully well know the alternative.

Their behaviour is not toddler like. No toddler could be that calculating.

I had a similar upbringing OP, and a master manipulator mum. We have very little contact now, and that's good.

Can I also suggest some form of therapy for you? Not just any counselling service, but a therapist helping you with assertiveness and to work on the legacy of your childhood.

They need some hobbies and a life of their own IMO. Stand your ground otherwise their expectations will escalate tenfold as they age. Use this Christmas as a catalyst for change.

Oh dear. Entirely not unexpected unfortunately.

I would ignore this bullshit and not bother to go over this Christmas. I don't see them being welcoming. I see them being full of guilt trip shit about how quiet it's been without you all there etc etc.

Let your boys have a full Christmas at home. Tell them to come to yours if they want but you are staying put.

The more you stand up for yourself, the more they will have to learn they can't pull this bullshit anymore.

I would be hopping about the email to your DS. Absolutely fuming. How dare they try and manipulate him like that. It had nothing to do with apologising at all.

I'm not going to reply til after the weekend, we've got loads of stuff planned and I can't be doing with spending ages trying to reply. When i do I'm going to try and be as brief and factual as possible, some great suggestions as to what to say, thank you!

I'm adamant I'm not giving in, terrified obv but also feel confident I'm doing the right thing that probably should have been done yonks ago.

I think it's pretty damn unlikely we will see them at Xmas, I can't see them listening to what I've said for a minute, like others have said, I genuinely don't think there is any reasoning with them no matter what I say.

I'm sure they'll be wringing their hands with "oh woe is us, fiery won't let us see the gc this Christmas, can't believe how badly she's treated poor us" as infinitum...

I'm so furious at the horrible things they've said and there next minute I'm deeply deeply sad.

I wouldn't reply at all to be honest. Let them stew.

It can be very scary standing up to parents like this as you have probably never been permitted to have boundaries with them. They will ramp up the pressure though. You will get the Flying Monkeys next - an aunty or someone sent in to tell you how horrid you are for upsetting your parents.

Either that or one of them will develop a "mystery illness."

Stand firm OP!!

Probably better to wait to respond anyway. Give you a chance to take the emotion out of the response, iyswim.

I wonder if this will end up bringing you closer to your sister. It sounds as if part of the 'distance' between the two of you is due to your parents.

I'd make plans now for a lovely Xmas Day on your own with your DC. Think of something simple and new just for you and them. All new menu, special movies to watch, new 'traditions'.

My love, feeling sad is absolutely to be expected. Feeling anger too is entirely justified, you have a right to feel that anger and indeed you should express it as constructively as you can. Not necessarily at the source of your anger, but to acknowledge the hurt and anger you have a right to.

It would be best if you don't reply directly to the email, but sending the "I acknowledge your comments, but my position remains the same" message and refuse to engage unless they pack this nonsense in and apologise.

You also have to remove the ability of direct contact between your parents and your children. You have to be honest with them about this too, telling them in age appropriate terms that there is a situation, that it's not of their doing, but that your parents are behaving irresponsibly and that for now contact must be limited until their behaviour is better.

Yes this will be scary, but you are only asking for a modification to the routine, this reaction is disproportionate and frankly NUTS!

You will have to prepare your dsis for the eventuality that you won't be attending the christmas with them at all.

You have to prepare yourself to go this far to state your boundaries and protect those of your families.

This will get worse before it gets better, please prepare yourself for this, it will help you navigate through this.

Having had a similarly dramatic episode with my parents in the last week (I mentioned that DH and I had enjoyed.visiting his home city and that it wouldn't be that bad a place tollive in. Mum came off the phone and told dad that me and DH amd the two DCs were moving there in the next two years. The next time I spoke to them four days later there was a barrage of.guilt trip. They claimed to be "reeling from the bombshell" I haddropped about us moving. Devastated. Massive over reactions. Mum kept going on that I had to accept that she thpught I had said I was moving but she refused to believe I hadn't said anything of the sort. It was ridiculous. I've barely touched on the 45 minutes of sobbing and guilt tripping I got from them).

Where was I? Yes, the best thing to do is to completely ignore the ridiculous behaviour. If you are still going to their house on Christmas day (for however long is up to you) then just reply to their email with "thanks for the email, we will be round at X time on Christmas day, see you then".

you don't need to reply to the ridiculous email. It will only feed their pity cycle and will probably be taken the wrong way and generate another round of character assassination and/or out pouring of "we did SO much to help you amd this is how you repay us?" Nonsense.

just ignore it. You don't even have to tell them you are ignoring it. Just blandly "yep got the email, we will see you at x event and then round to yours at x time on Christmas day".

They want the drama as it justifies their over the top behaviour. So just cut it out. You know it's unreasonable and don't want it so just carry on as if they are reasonable people and not over grown toddlers.

Totally agree with the "ignore the bad behaviour" responses.
They're behaving like toddlers, so treat them as you would toddlers - ignore what they're doing and saying until they start to behave properly.

Just reiterate your position - "so we'll see you Christmas Day after lunch" (or whenever it was) and NOTHING ELSE. Then she'll know that you got the email and that you have nothing to say about it. The less you say, the less she can fight back.

THe "mark of the narc" is the inability to see ANYTHING from anyone else's standpoint, only their own, and to twist everything back to how much they do for everyone else and how little anyone ever considers them. Woe, woe, woe - poor them!

Fiery of course you feel sad, I think that's a natural response - who wouldn't by upset it? And especially from your parents. And anger too. I feel angry on your behalf and I don't even know them! I know the type though, I think lots of us do unfortunately.

I think Hissy's advice is very good. Forewarned is forearmed and all that. It's a shame it has to be that way but that's how folk like your parents operate.

I hope you have a good weekend, all of you

If the flying monkeys do start making bombing runs, suggest you answer with the facts "my sons wanted christmas morning at home and to go to their grandparents at lunchtime. That's all they wanted. Three hours at home in the morning. Now, can we please talk about something else, because I do not want to discuss this situation any further. How's the cat?"

I wouldn't reply tbh - nothing you say will make any difference.

v wise post by Hissy

However well crafted and reasonable your reply is it won't make a jot of a difference to your parents.

I would just let them stew.

Wish I could like Hissys post

I wish I could like a few posts here, including yours preciousx

The one thing we need to focus on when dealing with narc/toxic/batshit/whatever is that we can't win. Even if we do win, we'll lose. The will see to it that we do. Whatever we do, we can't win, not at any cost.

We can only win when there are rules, honesty and fairness. NONE of these feature here.

We can't win, It'll be the end of all civilisation fo these people if we do, we'll threaten their very reason for being if we do. We need to understand the stakes being played here.

To us it's just a couple of hours to ourselves, to them it's a loss of control, which in their catastrophically filtered lives is the beginning of their destruction. i never said they were rational, did I? :)

We can only 'win' if we refuse to play. That way they will still kick off, but at least you're in charge of your actions, dipping in and out and negotiation with crazy is impossible.

Send the acknowledgement without an engagement, if you feel like sorting out their Christmas for them yet again, do so, but I'd recommend that this year you make a break and let them handle things, give them a chance to miss you, and more importantly give yourself and your family the gift of a peaceful Christmas at home.

Well the boys and I have had a good weekend, they haven't missed not going away with my folks at all which is great.

I knew a flying monkey visit from my aunt and uncle was on the way (love that term btw!) so thought I might as well pre empt it by calling them.

My uncle launched into a five minute rant about how upset he was with me and how it was my job to support my parents in their difficult time etc etc. So I let him rant then calmly said well they hadn't heard my side then told him and my aunt who I spoke to after. Apparently my folks turned up at their doorstep literally with my mum in floods.

Basically they'd heard a VERY selective version, mum and dad's version was that I wasn't coming at Xmas, no mention that I'd said we'd be over Xmas eve daytime or that we were coming over later Xmas day morning! Oh and of course no mention of their behaviour last Saturday at all.

Aunt & uncle were then super nice, horrified about the sobbing and shouting and were very understanding once I'd explained all. Uncle also apologised profusely for having a go at me and seem to totally understand I was being reasonable over Xmas.

Relieved to have had that over with as I won't be having any more flying monkeys as there no one else really.

Sounds like you handled that really well OP.

One of your parents will have the "mystery illness" next. Big Sigh.

Unfortunately it is unlikely that they will suddenly see the light if you stand up to them, more likely they will see it as a declaration of war, but at least you will be living your life according to your and DC needs, rather than their demands.

Good news about your Aunt & Uncle and possibly it will mean that in the future they won't just take what your mum says at face value.

TBH, even if you were going away for the whole of Christmas, your parents aren't alone, they have each other and your sister, so even that shouldn't have involved your mum turning up on her brother/sister's doorstep in floods of tears (that should be reserved for something way more devastating and serious).

My MIL is a bit upset we're not with them on Christmas Day, we're seeing them the day after Boxing Day for a few days. She's a pretty emotional person but I doubt she was around anyone's house in floods of tears. In fact, I should be around my brother's house in floods of tears as our mum is going away for Christmas next year and me and my brother are 'alone' except for the fact we're both married and I have children, so are perfectly fine to sort ourselves out. I'm a bit jealous though as she's off on a cruise for 20 days to mark her 70th birthday!

Another poster wishing there was a 'like' button for Hissys posts!

Fiery glad you had a good weekend and well done on pre-empting things with your Aunt and Uncle.

Sorry to say this (well not reall, I'm just being polite) but your parents sound like they haven't developed emotionally since childhood. All this storming about the place in tears, weeping and wailing over trivia and non events.

Lots of good advice already, so just wishing you all the best, OP. Delighted that your aunt and uncle now know your side of the story. Hopefully they now realise what your parents are really like.

Hope that you and your children have a lovely Christmas. [santa]