Feel dreadful after really upsetting my parents but don't think IABU?

[Fieryfighter]

Warning... It's a Christmas post. I've spent every Christmas of my life at my parents, pre and post having children, when I was married I always went to them as ExH didn't celebrate Christmas. I usually go to theirs on Christmas eve and leave the morning after boxing day. My kids have often mentioned wanting to have a Christmas at home as they never get to be at their houhouse and I also would like to spend some time at my house, and I only live about 25 mins from them.

I was at my folks with ds2 yesterday and whilst talking about Christmas I mentioned that the boys had said they wanted to have a Christmas at home, and that the boys had mentioned this a few times over the years so I was thinking maybe we could have Christmas morning at home then go over to my folks later that morning. I want for a minute suggesting we don't go to them at all, just that we'd go over later Christmas morning.

Basically they got really really upset, sobbing and everything, dad saying that there was no point putting up a tree if we're not going to be there (I said every year I decorate my house and never get to spend Christmas there), that they might as well just go away for Christmas etc etc. My sister and her son will be there Xmas eve and Christmas day so they won't be along I couldn't placate then at all and ds2 (9) got upset and was crying. They said they were really stressed about their nightmare neighbours and the house not selling (neighbours are really vile) and they hate being in their house and just don't want to be at home and the only thing they look forward to is us coming over (we visit every week).

Anyway, horrible atmosphere cotinued, I popped upstairs for 5 mins thinking if I left the room they'd make an effort with ds2 but they just sat on sofa mum quietly sobbing taking between themselves, ds2 said in car on way home it was really awkward (wish I hadn't gone upstairs now but I really thought they'd buck up and play with him or something)

Anyway, when I came down they said it would need better if we left as it was no good for ds2 so we did. I did tell them very gently I really didn't mean to upset them but I thought they were overreacting then dad got angry again so we left.

They are very good at making me feel guilty and I usually do what they want tbh. My sister is a complete PITA and behaves dreadfully towards them with no repercussions so I'm there 'good' one who's always there for them.

I think that parents such as your often don't understand the 'domino effect' of their attempts at manipulation. Their foolish and histrionic attempt to guilt you into spending Xmas morning with them has resulted, not in 'getting their way', but in you beginning to remember things that you'd tucked quietly away in the back of your mind. And that they've possibly started you on a journey of self-discovery that very well may result in them losing more than just Xmas morning! And all this for the sake of a few extra hours on one day a year. Sad really. And foolish.

But happy for you. Yes, I think it might help you to have someone to 'talk it out' with. As you realize more and more things and begin to want to change your behaviour (because I doubt that Xmas morning is the only thing they've guilted you into in the past) you're going to need a sounding board to help you see things in the correct light. That you are not to blame for any of this. And to help you change your patterns of behaviour towards them.

Your parents are truly, if belatedly, reaping what they have sown. And the sad part is, that they will most likely never be able to see that they've brought it all on themselves.

I can also see a time in the future when the DC will be so busy doing other things and wanting to be other places, that if their GP's keep on with attempts to manipulate they will simply avoid them and not want to be with them.

Counselling is a very good idea.

As Acrossthepond says, your parents stand to lose a lot. If there is no proper apology by 1st December, say that you will be staying at home all day Christmas day, the DC will go to their father's at teatime, you will spend Boxing day doing something different when they get back. They will have plenty of time to do their own shopping and food preparation, and you are sure that your sister will help them with that.

They can be so helpful and caring when it suits them to be.

The biggest problem with melodramatic parents with no sense of perspective is that they escalate and escalate and escalate the most trivial and minor of situations until it becomes a major family rift that causes more rifts and damage for years down the line, until everyone has said and done something utterly hurtful and harmful, and it was all completely unnecessary if they could have just got a fucking grip and pretended to be grown ups.

Gosh - that really is an over-reaction on their part! Almost feels like emotional blackmail. One thing about being a grandparent is that you have to accept that life moves on and things/traditions will change. If you had said you did not want to see them at all then I can understand that they might have been sad. I hope you manage to resolve this amicably.

Being a grandparent is a joy, but it is at a time of life when losses of all sorts are a feature - it can feel a bit grim sometimes!

Bloody hell, she's emailed ds2 (9) to say they're very sorry for upsetting him but that they think he understands they are stressed about the neighbours and were upset to hear we weren't be there Xmas morning and that they love them very much.

I've spoken to him and said whilst I'm pleased they have said sorry, being stressed or upset doesn't make that sort of behaviour ok and making excuses didn't make it right.

I haven't heard from her again myself but I'm pretty cross she's saying "sorry, but..." and making excuses Instead of "sorry, there' s no excuse for upsetting you" to ds2.

I bloody knew they were still justifying their behaviour

That is a blatant attempt to guilt trip your DS into saying that he is now ok and they can go this weekend.
to you OP, I've been lurking and agree with all those saying you are getting awful treatment here.

That is so low mailing your DS.
I would be blocking their email so that my dc didnt receive their messages.

My Mother is really horrid and I do live a few hundred miles away so easier but I have kept my DS away from her as I dont want her screwing with his head which is what she has done to all her dc.

Taking it at face value, it's good they have (semi) apologised to him.

Yes it's a bit cowardly, and "sorry if/but is never great, and they need to apologise to you too. But MN always wants people to behave perfectly and if they aren't on MN, they won't know The Rules!

DH had very emotionally abusive, controlling parents. He really couldn't tell what was ok for them to say and do and what was over the line into abusive. Until we had DD.

Now if he's not sure I ask him whether he would do/say that to DD. It's a good rule of thumb!

Well done for sticking to your guns, Op. It's really hard at first but it does get easier, honestly.

Why in the hell are they going behind your back and embroiling your son in their stupid guilt tripping drama? Can't they at least pretend to be grown ups?

I can't stand people like this. You're a saint to put up with them. If this were me, I'd tell them they can have something to be dramatic about and not spend any time at Christmas with them at all. They are exhausting and tiresome. Don't feed their drama, it will never ever stop.

Oh. My. God!!!! How fucking DARE she!!

Honestly, I think I'd be tempted to forward the email to myself and then hit reply and tell her that it was inappropriate for her contact your son directly, that her email was a blatant attempt at manipulating your son into feeling guilty for wanting Christmas at home. And that, until she apologizes to YOU and agrees never to attempt to manipulate your son again she is to send any emails to you to be screened first.

Tell her that there are to be NO attempts to contact the DCs until this issue is resolved between the adults in the situation and that the children are to be kept out of it!

That's terrible. So because you mentioned that your DCs would like to be at home on Christmas your mum has gone roung you to try to enotionally manipulare your 9 year old.

I hope your DC is ok and does not feel he is responsible IN ANY WAY for their drama.

As for Christmas after that stunt I would tell her to sling her hook.

Fieryfighter, This is one of the eternal dilemmas that beset families almost every year. This year, you've said you'd like just a bit of time with YOUR family. You'll be over later. Mum and Dad of course take this badly and try to make you feel guilty. DON'T! But tell them that next Christmas you'll be taking yourself and the kids away from Christmas Eve until the New Year as you really need a proper break and a bit of pampering. Point out the Dear Sister has plenty of time to cover for you and learn how to do a Christmas Dinner. And start saving for your Happy Christmas 2016. No, I'm not kidding!

Fucking hell

Completely agree with Across, I would forward and reply from you. What she's done is, again, disgusting.

You need to break this cycle, now. You've put up with so much, and now they're starting on your dc.

Well, her decision to email your DS simply reinforces the fact you made completely the right decision to decline the trip this weekend. She just can't help dragging your DS into the middle of it all can she?

Not surprised at how your sister is if this is how you were raised.

Have read op's posts and a few replies.

Agree disgusting behaviour by your parents, you're definitely trapped in fog and are possibly the 'golden child' - just as damaging as being the scapegoat which I'm guessing your sister is which is why she does what she likes cos she'll get shite no matter what!

Stick to your guns!

Absolutely NO WAY should she be emailing to emotionally blackmail children!!

Total overreaction to the initial conversation. Don't let them make you feel bad for putting your kids first.

Tbh I'd be working the emails to them much more strongly. Including telling them to bloody grow up and not emotionally blackmail children!!

That's really awful and like others said manipulate behaviour ! I notice the tears were the first reaction then when you stuck to your guns and gently reiterated your decision your dad got angry as the next mode of
manipulation so you are going round in the drama you need to pull yourself out of and be assertive if not for yourself then for your child that got upset. You are his advocate. Think to yourself how dare they make him cry like that ? Stick up for him if not yourself you can be firm and fair just don't raise your voice and get dragged into the drama. My therapist showed me this diagram of a drama triangle it's sooo useful when you see how people swap roles in any exchange like this. Your job will be to move from the unhealthy triangle to healthy one (all will be revealed if you want to look that up). I'm so sorry it must feel horrible as you clearly love your parents and this manipulation will of course probably be an unconscious behaviour but it needs pointing out or you will go through life like this - other people are happy - your not happy- it needs to be that you are both happy there must be some compromise. Good luck X stay strong X

Funny you should say that frequent I was actually thinking of 'games people play' as possibly being useful to read. Bit easier going than 'I'm OK you're OK'.

Especially as here the people meant to be parents are infantilising themselves and making the OP act as their parent. Responsible for their feelings.

Yes Bacon I agree and I'm pleased everyone is offering great support on here. Guilt is a terrible thing and yes 2 parents infantilising themselves! Un-fucking-believable to then make child cry ! Adult tantrums ! They owe you an apology ! Outrageous!
It's so difficult as well with such prolonged behaviour. You can't teach an old dog new tricks as they say. You can only try to diffuse and remove yourself the most important thing being that you and yours are not compromised. Although you feel guilty as hell I'm sure you can see just from the overwhelming response on here what is right and wrong in this situation.
Passive aggressive behaviour is sometimes worse then an outright argument. Could you write a letter one that is not accusing or blaming just saying how you feel ? I don't know if someone has already suggested that as -sorry - I didn't read every response in this thread.

Bloody hell the drama continues, had an email last night from mum with two page word doc attached!

She's saying that they think I'm not coming at Christmas because my sister will be there, and that I am 'punishing' them for having my sister there. totally not the case, I told them exactly why, that the boys wanted a Xmas at home, besides I've been at number of events at my folks with my sister this year alone and all been perfectly fine! We're nice to each other, have a laugh etc, we have our issues but we always get along at family events. Besides, I'd be seeing her at theirs Xmas eve day time and when we get there Xmas day morning for the rest of the event so makes no sense at all.

She then goes on to say that it's incredible I say I want the boys to see calm discussion is the way to resolve things because I had a bitter divorce. They know that I have never argued in front of the children, the divorce was bitter but that was through the courts, not in person, kids weren't involved in any of that at all! Besides my ex and I didn't fight, we did indeed discuss reasonably. I NEVER argue in front of the kids because I know full well how horrendous of is from bitter experience. My ex and I were adamant about that. Kids have never seen adults behaving like my folks did Saturday.

She then goes on about my having a short memory, about how much help, financial support etc they've given me but now they're clearly of little importance to me. I've also helped them out massively over these years, I'm always their crutch when they have problems.

Now this has riled me soooo much: she then says that they have felt I have been distancing myself from them, that when the boys were younger they took on lots of childcare and now they feel they are no longer a significant part of their lives. To make this clear, we go over to their house every Saturday for the afternoon and early evening, then every third weekend they are with their dad, in which case we see them after school one evening that week. Some weeks we see them twice! Every birthday and holiday event we spend at least part of it with them, they are invited to all of the boys events such as sports day, plays etc. She's complaining that all year we have only had two 'outings' completely ignoring all the time we've spent with them, apparently only outings count so the days of board games, card games, badminton in the garden, walks in the forest don't count.

As the kids have got older they do have more activities going on and ds1 obviously has his own things going on as he's 14 so it is hard to arrange outings with them, at one point Thursday was our only free evening! But we still see them without fail weekly.

She finished with they regret ds2 was there on Saturday and regret he was upset, but I need to understand they are very stressed and that their feelings are of no consequence to me.

I am so flabbergasted by it all, it's so bonkers.

Haven't slept all bloody night after reading that, feel like I'm losing my mind!!

That's nuts.

Is it worth having a quick word with your sister in case parents have been talking to her? To say all I wanted to do was have a few hours at home on Christmas morning, patents havent reacted well. I've had a wierd email from parents saying I am avoiding you. This is not the case at all, if they say anything to you please don't believe this.

The rest I just dont know.
Ignore because anything you reply with will encourage them to pile on the critism and justification.
Reply briefly saying that all you wanted to do was spend a couple of hours at home in the mornng. Then not engage further.

Sorry you're having deal with this crap.

My inlaws live very close by and we all get on well, we would do anything for them and they would always help us. They wouldn't expect to se us once a week.

Parents not patents.

If you do reply, I'd recommend just saying, 'Good grief, you do like to make a drama out of nothing. See you Christmas for lunch.'

Mind you, that's because we do pretty much just see my parents for Christmas lunch and once or twice the rest of the year. We all mildly regret not being closer, but this smothering and angst just sounds weird.

So OP- they didn't apologise at all?
I am stunned by their response, appalled. They sound so weak and immature, I hate this word, but pathetic too.
How dare they bring your divorce into this? They have missed the clear points you were making, skirted around the issue and come up with complete insanity in an attempt to justify their bizarre and immature behaviour. I cant advice what to say as so much to take in, but if I were you I'd give a very very wide berth, not respond for a long while, not see or contact them at least until near Christmas when you decide what to do. They are not worthy of you all.