Feel dreadful after really upsetting my parents but don't think IABU?

[Fieryfighter]

Warning... It's a Christmas post. I've spent every Christmas of my life at my parents, pre and post having children, when I was married I always went to them as ExH didn't celebrate Christmas. I usually go to theirs on Christmas eve and leave the morning after boxing day. My kids have often mentioned wanting to have a Christmas at home as they never get to be at their houhouse and I also would like to spend some time at my house, and I only live about 25 mins from them.

I was at my folks with ds2 yesterday and whilst talking about Christmas I mentioned that the boys had said they wanted to have a Christmas at home, and that the boys had mentioned this a few times over the years so I was thinking maybe we could have Christmas morning at home then go over to my folks later that morning. I want for a minute suggesting we don't go to them at all, just that we'd go over later Christmas morning.

Basically they got really really upset, sobbing and everything, dad saying that there was no point putting up a tree if we're not going to be there (I said every year I decorate my house and never get to spend Christmas there), that they might as well just go away for Christmas etc etc. My sister and her son will be there Xmas eve and Christmas day so they won't be along I couldn't placate then at all and ds2 (9) got upset and was crying. They said they were really stressed about their nightmare neighbours and the house not selling (neighbours are really vile) and they hate being in their house and just don't want to be at home and the only thing they look forward to is us coming over (we visit every week).

Anyway, horrible atmosphere cotinued, I popped upstairs for 5 mins thinking if I left the room they'd make an effort with ds2 but they just sat on sofa mum quietly sobbing taking between themselves, ds2 said in car on way home it was really awkward (wish I hadn't gone upstairs now but I really thought they'd buck up and play with him or something)

Anyway, when I came down they said it would need better if we left as it was no good for ds2 so we did. I did tell them very gently I really didn't mean to upset them but I thought they were overreacting then dad got angry again so we left.

They are very good at making me feel guilty and I usually do what they want tbh. My sister is a complete PITA and behaves dreadfully towards them with no repercussions so I'm there 'good' one who's always there for them.

Yes - I think you're right about the way that they will behave. I shrewdly suspect they will get the kids on their own and make them feel terrible for saying that they wanted to have Christmas at home. They'll return to you upset and confused and feeling guilty for causing an argument simply for stating a preference. That is not fair - it is bullying, and the children are too young and vulnerable to be able to withstand it. You know that they are capable of this because they already did it last weekend!

(Would I be right in thinking that you'd have been bulldozed the same way at their age for expressing an opinion that didn't agree with theirs? If so - when you feel a bit upset by this, keep saying to yourself "I'm not going to let that happen to MY kids!")

Op that grandpRents thread was probably written by a slighted grandparent, just ignore. I think what they are doing is trying to make you feel bad, ds nailed it. Time to put them first now, I think since you have stood up to them, their toxic behaviour is really coming out. Stand your ground, and stY strong.

HeteronormativeHaybales

Your so right, is incredibly difficult, the amount of guilt is incredible and over been traumatised by the whole thing. I am literally terrified of upsetting them. I have had to set my email not to synch on my phone as I'm too scared of getting an email unexpectedly so I steel myself to go in and check every few hours. Jeeez.

fiery - my DH comes from a family a bit like yours, with an established pattern of passive-aggressive bullying. He also found it extremely anxiety-provoking to take a stand, to the point of feeling physically ill. He had counselling for a while, and it really helped to boost his confidence, not just with his parents but in dealing with conflict more generally (he is quite high up in management, so he needs to be able to do this). Is there any chance you might be able to get some help through this? It's a real crunch time for you - it's not just about this one argument, but about the much wider issue of setting boundaries for the first time. That's not an easy thing to do, and you are doing GREAT. But you could use some support and a counsellor might provide that??

I'm just responding to your update Fiery bit the thing which immediately jumped out is the utter lack of apology and the "threat" of initiating a rift which, it's heavily implied, is your fault.

I say "threat" because where'd they see it as a punishment, you might see it as a relief!

Actually do you know I hadn't even remotely considered getting help, despite the fact I'm in bits over this all! So much had been dredged up over this, I've remembered some of their awful fights and trying to intervene, neighbours coming over, I think police once? I have a very vague memory of that I think but I could be wrong or just blanked it out??

It's affecting me dreadfully I know so maybe I should speak to gp or something?

Can't tell you all enough how much this thread has helped me though, I actually don't think I could have stayed strong without it.

There is a nice Christmas food fair and market not too far away so will take the kids to that this weekend I think

fiery - I think you are under colossal stress. You have been brought up by these people to do everything they say. Your own position as a subject with her own thoughts and feelings has always come second to their drama and their desires. It's not just the big fights, but all the ways that you've been controlled at a very deep level. Of course you are finding this hard - you're not just pushing back over Christmas, but over a lifetime of being bullied. You're probably only just realising the extent to which behaviour like this has affected you, which is also lifechanging and very emotional.

Don't beat yourself up for not walking through this serenely. It is unbelievably tough for you.

And yes, getting help and support through this might be useful. My DH found anxiety medication (at the lowest dose) just took the edge off and gave him room to think. Counselling was absolutely transformative - I was honestly surprised how quickly he went from really struggling to confident and firm. Doing lovely things like that Christmas market is also helpful.

*but, not bit!

Nothing really to add to the excellent advice you've already had here, just wanted to reiterate that you haven't done anything wrong.

In your shoes, I wouldn't want to send my DC over either. I can imagine the passive aggressive guilt trips, snide comments (can you tell I've experienced this myself )?

Excellent advice from shovetheholly. Agree that you've been "trained" to put them first.

Do look into getting some help and support for yourself - I'm glad you've found this thread helpful .

I'm astonished by your parents' behaviour. You're doing well to keep your children away from a situation that is liable to start making them feel as bad as you currently do.

Even - and I know you said this was possible - if they have recently have had stress in their lives, there is no excuse for keeping things going like this. At times of stress I'm sure we've all behaved badly, in the heat of a moment. But anyone with a shred of self-awareness, who really wanted their grandchildren to be comfortable in their company and happy at Christmas - would have apologised, to them as well as to you.

To be honest, from your other posts, it sounds like they have long-standing 'form', so it isn't even as if it can be excused as a stress-related one-off anyway. I hope you and your dc have a lovely weekend :)

'No thanks. DS2 is still upset about your massive overreaction on Saturday, and I'm not letting you make the boys feel guilty about a perfectly ordinary request like Christmas at home. Talk to me when you've got a sense of perspective.'

Then I'd run away and howl in a corner

Decline the invitation for your parents to take your DC to visit their cousin. You know that you won't be able to relax if they go. If you want the DC to see their cousin, arrange something with your sister directly there is no need for your parents to be involved.

Clearly as they have decided there is a 'rift' between you, they won't be expecting to see you at all over Christmas, or for you to be cooking for them. DS1 is uncomfortable going with them this week-end, how will he and DS2 feel having to spend at least some of Christmas day with them, in case they start behaving like that again? If you have the Christmas morning at home, what are the odds of your mother saying 'we missed you so much, not having you to stay over and seeing you open your stockings...' making you all feel guilty for not being there.

There are Christmas dinner ready meals in supermarkets for those who can't cook. I think you've pandered to them for long enough.

LongHardStare made a stand and it wasn't pleasant, but her parents accepted it in the end.

Omg! Crazy behaviour! Hope you have a lovely xmas at home without drama from your parents. After their performance I wouldn't even invite them round until they apologised but that's just me. Tell your children the plan, do all the Xmas planning and make it official. I've had similar from in-laws, makes me mad they are so selfish, my family are very relaxed about it - I think grandparents use xmas as a way to exert control, emotional blackmail etc and it really isn't very festive! What would father Xmas say about their behaviour?! And Xmas really should be about children and all you are doing is making sure your children have a relaxed Xmas of their choosing, otherwise they will grow up like me and have very mixed feelings about it (I had awkward and stressful xmasses with my stepfather and his family as a child).

I have parents like this, I have learnt to state what I am doing then ignore and act confused at the following drama. My reply would be:
'There is no rift, I am merely staying at home with the children overnight on Christmas Eve and on Christmas morning as I already told you, everything else-us visiting until day after Boxing Day and me cooking will remain the same.

I think it would be best to leave it this weekend, ds2 is still confused by your reaction to us letting you know our plans and as much as I appreciate you wouldn't mean to make them feel uncomfortable or awkward-that's how they did feel by your over reaction.

Pass on our love to cousin and I shall pop to see you next week (whenever your next planning to.)'

And then leave it at that, visit as normal and don't mention it. You staying at home isn't an issue-it's your choice which you have the right to make and if your parents want to continue making it an issue they will have to go out their way to do so.
Hugs I know first hand it isn't easy but your not at fault so don't feel you have to engage with their drama as you don't your not answerable to them. Your an adult and a parent in your own right with the ability to make decisions for your family without needing their approval. It does get easier

Do get help.

But also, step back from this and notice that your parents, in this matter, are absolutely stark, staring bonkers.

You offered to go along later in the day. It was a wonderful compromise and you should stick to it. If its all or nothing from their point of view, go with nothing.

I'm not a parent-hater but yours need re-training. Take deep breaths, get counselling and get on with your life.

Gosh. I think you should be led by the boys in this instance - your DS2 was upset by the GPs bad behaviour last weekend, and now your DS1 says he doesn't want to go away with them if it's likely to be awkward, which it will, because they're feeling aggrieved and clearly have no self-restraint around your children.

So - stuff 'em (your parents). THEY have done this, not you - and your sons no longer feel comfortable with them, so everyone misses out.

Oh and when they start with the 'we're so hurt that you won't be spending Christmas with us/we won't see the boys Xmas morning/your not doing what we tell you too' just use a stick phrase of 'I'm sorry you feel like that but I dot understand why as we are spending Xmas with you/you will see the children late morning/we decided this was what we wanted to do so we are doing it' smile, and swiftly move the conversation on.

It definitely sounds like you have the Fear Obligation Guilt thing going on that some from abusive families (I think, just seen it referenced on here). I certainly would look into getting some help. The fact that you are reacting the way you are over this shows it isn't a normal response but this is how they have conditioned you. And it's very wrong.

I wouldn't let your boys go this weekend. They will say something, possibly try and guilt them into changing their minds. Your mothers response was full of crap and I honestly wouldn't trust them at the moment. This rift business is just a way for them to try and get you to backtrack again "oh no, I don't want to cause a rift over this, of course we will come as usual on Christmas." They know exactly what they are doing. Don't let them do it.

You do that op, and have a wonderful time, and Christmas, with you and your dc. The more you say about them, the more toxic they are sounding. I think their behaviour is utterly toxic. Now the penny is dropping for you, all those behaviours that they displayed in the past, pieced together, create a bigger and more complete picture.

What have you decided to do with your boys this weekend? I'd go with shovetheholly's response and leave your parents be for the time being.

You cook their Christmas dinner for them

It's getting clearer isn't it? your the domestic help for the day. No wonder they don't want things to change.

I hope you don't pay for it too.

Hi all, I basically said I was disappointed they saw this as a rift, that I still care and love them, but that their overreaction had already made ds2 uncomfortable and awkward and that this needs to be resolved first. I also said I was surprised they hadn't apologised for their reaction to what was a very reasonable suggestion.

I then said what an above poster suggested

"I don't think this weekend is a good idea whilst this is unresolved, not because I don't think you won't love and care for them, but because they would be in the middle of an awkward situation and that's not right and I need to put my children's feelings first. "

I am literally terrified of checking my mail now, what's wrong with me? I'm a grown bloody woman!!

OP - you are doing the right thing. Kids come first - every single time.

Good for you. I can't believe they've treated you so badly.

Thanks for the support all, they can be so helpful and caring, great with the kids etc but such drama queens and tbh fine as long as I don't rock the boat clearly. I'm afraid it's going to take a lot for them to recognise they could possibly be in the wrong and tbh I'm not sure they're going to be able to.

I'm drained and exhausted and its only 3pm!!