Feel dreadful after really upsetting my parents but don't think IABU?

[Fieryfighter]

Warning... It's a Christmas post. I've spent every Christmas of my life at my parents, pre and post having children, when I was married I always went to them as ExH didn't celebrate Christmas. I usually go to theirs on Christmas eve and leave the morning after boxing day. My kids have often mentioned wanting to have a Christmas at home as they never get to be at their houhouse and I also would like to spend some time at my house, and I only live about 25 mins from them.

I was at my folks with ds2 yesterday and whilst talking about Christmas I mentioned that the boys had said they wanted to have a Christmas at home, and that the boys had mentioned this a few times over the years so I was thinking maybe we could have Christmas morning at home then go over to my folks later that morning. I want for a minute suggesting we don't go to them at all, just that we'd go over later Christmas morning.

Basically they got really really upset, sobbing and everything, dad saying that there was no point putting up a tree if we're not going to be there (I said every year I decorate my house and never get to spend Christmas there), that they might as well just go away for Christmas etc etc. My sister and her son will be there Xmas eve and Christmas day so they won't be along I couldn't placate then at all and ds2 (9) got upset and was crying. They said they were really stressed about their nightmare neighbours and the house not selling (neighbours are really vile) and they hate being in their house and just don't want to be at home and the only thing they look forward to is us coming over (we visit every week).

Anyway, horrible atmosphere cotinued, I popped upstairs for 5 mins thinking if I left the room they'd make an effort with ds2 but they just sat on sofa mum quietly sobbing taking between themselves, ds2 said in car on way home it was really awkward (wish I hadn't gone upstairs now but I really thought they'd buck up and play with him or something)

Anyway, when I came down they said it would need better if we left as it was no good for ds2 so we did. I did tell them very gently I really didn't mean to upset them but I thought they were overreacting then dad got angry again so we left.

They are very good at making me feel guilty and I usually do what they want tbh. My sister is a complete PITA and behaves dreadfully towards them with no repercussions so I'm there 'good' one who's always there for them.

OP, FIL used to be like this too. I am perhaps insensitive, but I cannot relate to people crying over stupid shit. My knee jerk reaction is irritation, followed by confusion on what the hell they expect me to do about it.

He started crying one time over a conversation on the phone. I forget what it was about, probably being "helpless" in yet another trivial situation, and I just bluntly asked "What the fuck? Why are you crying?" He got more upset, and when my answer didn't change he hung up on me saying I was ostracizing him. ...because I wouldn't fetch his mail/ask a nurse a question/something he could either do himself or could attend to later.

Anyway, a few years, firm boundaries, and children later he's almost a completely different man. I dare say he's happier when he knows where he stands with us, he's certainly been less dramatic and we've all gotten along better for it. He's also in a much better place where he's not stressed and that makes a huge difference.

Set boundaries, you'll be happier and when you're more relaxed around your mother who you now don't let walk all over you, you'll get along with her better which will make you two closer overall. Or at the very least you'll be able to put up with her because you know where you stand.

Blimey fiery, they don't have a lot of self control do they? They sound incredibly self-obsessed. What an outrageous way to treat their daughters. My dps got a bit like this in the 'let it all hang out' 70s when they were splitting up but thank God, they reined it in eventually

fiery - I know, I know, you feel just horrible. You're a people-pleasing person, you like those around you to be happy, so this feels very counter-intuitive and wrong at an emotional level, even though rationally you know it's the only way forward. You've also been 'trained' from an early age to do exactly what they say, so you're breaking an old and tough mould here which is fraught with all kinds of anxiety. Keep listening to your rational head. It's screwed on right! This is something that needs to happen - like having an operation to correct something that's wrong with your body. No-one wants to go through it, but it's worth it in the long run.

To be honest, I still get upset about having to redraw the boundary lines two years from starting when I feel fragile. (Sometimes I feel angry at being put in that position too). BUT it is getting easier - it's like my heart is hardening a bit, and I am able to see the emotional blackmail for what it is and to say 'Actually, I am NOT responsible for this person's extreme and controlling reaction'. I am getting better at being assertive and not feeling the need to justify or apologise, and I think my in laws are getting used to it as well, which helps.

It will be fine. I know it's difficult not to seethe over it constantly, but try to get outside and meet friends and generally have 'time out' from the stress. Do anything that distracts you and makes you feel lovely, because that's how you deserve to feel!

Firey they sound utterly toxic and vile, they are taking advantage of your good nature. This has to be done, you have to put your kids first, and brake this cycle.

Hi all, not heard from them and I've given them a couples of days to calm down so going to send this. Would appreciate any thoughts on how it sounds as I'm having palpitations about sending it!!

"I'm very sorry for upsetting you on the weekend, whilst obviously I don't like to see you upset I really don't think it's at all unreasonable to have a small part of Christmas at our own home. I certainly wasn't suggesting we don't come at all, I was very clear that I was simply suggesting that we stay at ours Christmas eve so that they boys can open their stockings at home and then come over to yours later in the morning.

We'd be popping over at some point Xmas eve to see you and so I can prepare as much of Christmas dinner as I can and we'd be over later Christmas morning and I'll still be more than happy to do the cooking. As we stay until the day after boxing day it's not like you'll hardly see us.

As I said yesterday, the boys have mentioned sometimes over the years that they'd like a Christmas at home and that seems a reasonable compromise.

I am however very upset about the way Saturday went, I don't know why there couldn't be a reasonable discussion instead of sobbing and temper, especially in front of ds2. Ds2 was distraught the rest of Saturday and still upset Sunday morning, he's certainly never seen me upset like that and I don't expect you to do that in front of the boys. When I went upstairs I thought that might diffuse the situation and you'd engage with ds2 but clearly not. He told me in the car on the way home how horrible it was sat in the living room with you and that's just not acceptable in front of a child. If you could have explained nicely that you'd been very stressed and would we still come then I'm sure I would have said fine but next year how about we try have a bit of time at home in our house but instead there was over dramatics and unpleasantness.

We will be spending Xmas eve at home and would very much like to come over later Xmas morning for the rest of the time as usual, or if you prefer we'd be very happy for you to come to ours, which might make it less stressful for you anyway?

One thing I do ask though is you never behave like that in front of the kids again, it's just not OK. "

That reads fine to me.

I think you do need to be prepared to not bother at all about seeing them at Christmas if they decide to continue to strop or sulk. So I'd send that, see if you get a reasonable answer, and then be ready to call off your offer.

I find that a bit long and confusing - are you staying at home Christmas eve or are you going over to theirs for a bit then returning home. I also think you're too apologetic.

Others are MUCH better at this than me, but how about:

"I'm very sorry for upsetting you on the weekend. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a small part of Christmas at our own home.

I am proposing that we stay at ours the night of Christmas eve so that they boys can open their stockings at home, which has been a long-term request of theirs. Then we will come over to yours late on Christmas morning. They can still open their presents from you at your house.

We will still pop over earlier in the day on Xmas eve to see you (I need to start preparing the dinner - I'm more than happy to cook, as I usually do). When we arrive on Christmas morning, we will stay until the day after boxing day. So we will have plenty of time together!

I was very disturbed by the way that Saturday went. I want to request that in future we discuss these things reasonably and without extremes of emotion. It is upsetting for the children to witness sobbing and temper in adults. I want them to grow up into the kind of people who see that calm discussion is the right way to resolve a disagreement, so I believe we all need to lead by example on this score.

I very much hope that we can enjoy a family Christmas as usual this year. The only thing that changes is a minor detail of the timetabling."

"I'm very sorry for upsetting you on the weekend…"

Change this to "I am very sorry you were upset this weekend". See the subtle difference? Don't put the blame on yourself for their being upset. It only reinforces to them that you were 'wrong' and you are not.

"I was simply suggesting that we stay…."

I'd rephrase this along the lines of 'we had simply decided to stay at home Xmas morning etc etc…come to yours later…etc etc". You don't want to 'suggest', that implies you want their 'consent', iyswim.

Hope all goes well with the email!

I honestly don't think you should apologise at all. It was their choice to get upset, you shouldn't take responsibility for their reaction.
I would keep it as short and simple as possible really.

Oooh, I like the way you think acrossthepond.

Just wanted to comment that I think your email is fine. Stick to your guns over this one. You won't have many more chances to have a Christmas morning at home with your DC so insist on this one and in future too.

Actually, Across the pond's subtle alteration is much better. You were not at all out of order for your suggestion, they were for their reaction. So not your place to apologise.

I think your email is mostly fine. AcrossthePond's alteration is less apologetic.

I also would not lay it on quite do thick about your son being upset. Being less emotional yourself is modelling how you want them to respond

I also agree with AcrossThePond's slant, it's a very important approach to take.

I also don't think you should be signing yourself us a skivvy again this year. Your sister can take over the reins

I think you do need to be prepared for this all to go nuclear, as a ploy to get you back in your place.

Don't allow that. Be prepared, wholly, to go but alone at home this year.

Hi Fiery, Idon't really have much to add to the excellent advice others have already given, but just wanted to add a message of support. I know from experience just how upsetting situations like this can be to deal with.

Please remember you have the right to set boundaries and don't be over - apologetic (I know that's hard to do when you've been conditioned to behave in a certain way). After all, you haven't done anything wrong!

Another vote for Across the ponds re-wording. Subtle but more assertive. Good luck!

Go IT alone this year*

Oh dear OP that sounds awful. We had similar with ExPils, they had us for 5 yrs in a row and when we said we were visiting my parents they called us crying and shouting for months.

I would say

'I feel very disappointed in your reaction to my telling you we would be spending xmas eve night at home and coming over on xmas morning. It seems a very big over reaction for what is essentially a few hours. I certainly wasn't suggesting we don't come at all, I was very clear that I was simply suggesting that we stay at ours Christmas eve so that they boys can open their stockings at home and then come over to yours later in the morning.

We'd be over on Xmas eve to see you still and I can prepare as much of Christmas dinner then. We will then return Christmas morning and I'll still be more than happy to do the cooking as usual. As we stay until the day after boxing day it's not like you'll hardly see us.

As I said yesterday, the boys have mentioned sometimes over the years that they'd like a Christmas at home and that seems a reasonable compromise.

I am very upset about the way Saturday went, I don't know why there couldn't be a reasonable discussion instead of crying, especially in front of ds2. Ds2 was distraught the rest of Saturday and still upset Sunday morning, he's never seen me upset like that and I don't expect you to do that in front of the boys. If you could have calmly explained that you'd been very stressed and that was why you were so upset it would have been better for ds2, but instead there was over dramatics and unpleasantness.

I am sending this email because i do not want another emotional over reaction. We will still be spending Xmas eve at home as said on Saturday and would still very much like to come over later Xmas morning, or if you prefer we'd be very happy for you to come to ours, which might make it less stressful for you anyway?

One thing I do ask though is you never behave like that in front of the kids again, it's just not acceptable.'

They sound like they have a very unhealthy dynamic. PIls were similar and recently mil died and fil has fallen apart. How do you think your mum would cope if your dad passed away? I know now is not the time to bring it up but i would be thinking about how to start preparing her to be more independent. It sounds like she would expect even more from you and would use any manipulative means to get you to do as she wished.

Fiery please read your proposed email again love and see how you really need to stop apologising for living and asking permission to breathe. TELL them what you, a grown adult woman and mother, are going to do and do it.

Bugger what they think! They don't care what you think, or what your family thinks. Stand up for your boys, stand up for yourself. You won't go wrong if you put your family and yourself first (and not always in that order either)

I'm not sure I'd use the boys as an excuse. If they're ok with acting like that in front of them, I wouldn't put it past them to target the boys themselves with things like "Why don't you want to spend Christmas with us?".

I'd make you the final authority on it. "We've been spending xmas with you these last few years, I would like a quiet Christmas with just the boys. I understand you want to see us, so a good compromise is seeing you in the afternoon."

Then take out

"If you could have explained nicely that you'd been very stressed and would we still come then I'm sure I would have said fine but next year how about we try have a bit of time at home in our house but instead there was over dramatics and unpleasantness."

It gives them room to "try again", because if they only acted a certain way, you would have... I'd do something like

"There was no need for the dramatics or unpleasantness, I don't want to see that sort of unacceptable behavior in from of my children again."

Agree with above. Stop apologising for wanting to have a few hours at home over Christmas. Your parents will not be on their own and they are being totally unreasonable about this.

tbh if you live 25 mins away and your sister is going to be staying anyway, I would be going over for the Christmas dinner only and then coming home again.

Yes, i defo wouldn't say your ds2 told you they were unpleasant to be near when you left the room. If they are this immature it is unlikely they will take that on the chin and may have a go at him for getting them into trouble.

Change the sentances to across the ponds working, the rest leave as it is. If we all start changing it, it won't sound like have written it, it will sound like you've spent days re-writing it.

I think it reads well, send it today and feel better.
My childhood was spent at my grandparents, even when I was 19 and had a boyfriend. It was not fun.

Hissy is absolutely right.

I wouldn't put it past them to target your boys either.

Just remember, you're not the one in the wrong here. Their behaviour, on the other hand has been bloody awful.

They should be the ones apologising to you!

Agree with posters above - why are you apologising to them? You've done absolutely nothing wrong.

I'm a bit concerned about just how much you might have been brainwashed by them. Even when taking a stand you're seeking their approval.