To think that I am clearly an unlikeable person as people don't warm to me and are less nice to me than they are to others?

[PinkAndWhiteWafers]

Title is self explanatory really.

I have friends and get invited to things but everyone seems to warm to me less than they do to others, and whilst people are all lovely and nicey nice to others, I never get that treatment from them and they are abrupt with me. I am a quietly spoken person, I'm not loud or gobby or abrupt, I'm kind and gentle with how I speak to others yet I get spoken to like dirt.

It has just happened to me tonight on Facebook. I did a status about having the heating on today as it's cold (yes, boring I know). Someone who is always very nice and lovely to others posted a really abrupt reply, just in a tone as though she finds me irritating. Actually that's the tone lots of people speak to me in; irritation.

I have tried treating people as they treat me and all it meant was that friends stopped talking to me. No one actually seems bothered about my feelings.

We've got 3 kids and 1 is disabled .... I found all my 'normal' friends couldn't hack my disabled child. They felt pity. Couple of school teachers were the worst!
Friends with mums of kids like mine tend to understand life better!
Also I'm a northerner living down south. Found another northern friend .... She gets me!!!

Everyone who was ever bullied feels like it was there fault, but when you seeing children bullying another child you know that it is definitely the fault of the bullies, not their victim.

However bullying takes its toll and we do become oversensitive as well as putting up with people who don't appreciate us. Really OP, just get rid of the "friends" who are not your friends and hone down to people that you like and who like you.

It's the same for me ...

I've been thinking a lot about your dilemma. There's been a lot of commiseration and sympathy and support but not much practical advice. I was lurking on the Kondo thread and there was something about sorting your wardrobe. The idea is that you hold each item and ask yourself, "does this item bring me joy?". If it doesn't, you thank it for it's service and donate it away. Perhaps you should do the same with the friends in your life and get out to find some new, life-enriching friends?

My other thought was about something that's going on in one of my social circles. There is someone I find a bit rude and unkind, so I avoid her company but keep my thoughts to myself. Then I found out that my closest friend felt the same. So we avoid her company but keep it to ourselves. Recently, it's become apparent that at least another 4 other people feel the same. It's becoming difficult to keep this to ourselves as some of them feel we should exclude her from our plans. I don't think we should, although some of them feel quite hurt about how she's treated them, so I do understand a bit.
Now, I don't think you sound anything like her, but I do wonder if she is also hurting and confused if she's starting to notice.

Nothing new to add except to say FB is not the best as a barometer of how people feel about you. Ignore FB then consider who your real friends are.

Also,

WTAF Red??

Look, I grew up surrounded by white people. Have always got on better with white people. When I said less bullshit I meant that they are often more accepting of my weirdness and non-black hobbies. Don't make out that I hate black people. I just can't stand all the fake fistbumps/rapping/yo/bro and competitiveness that I see regularly.

Secondly I don't see why I should have to feel bad for not being a white-hating, extreme civil rights campaigner. If I had said the same thing about whites would you have nodded along in agreement?

And you also nicely illustrated my point. Thank you. Some blacks are cliquey and bitchy. Some are lovely. Such is life.

Oh, facebook, yes: ignore facebook and think about how people are in real life.

Actually, there is a picture going round on facebook saying the best sign of a great relationship is no sign of it on facebook.

Red are you just going to keep changing the wording of my thread to suit your own agenda? You seem hellbent on twisting my views to encourage others to attack me too. Is that not bullying? Funny that you seem to think it's me that's the twat. You clearly have your own issues if you feel the need to attack my so bitterly.

Dowerger of course I don't get on with all men. I have unfortunately known a few twats, but MY experiences in MY life are that I generally get along better with men. And my original post was in reaction to the behaviour of the people in the op. I have only experienced those types of behaviour from women. Being left out because I don't 'fit'. Again that is just MY life.

I never once said I hate women or ALL women behave that way. That is just how others chose to read between the lines and jump to their own conclusions. I have some lovely female friends. But it takes a while to realise who matters most in life and who genuinely cares.

I'm useless in the baby group/school run type situations. And that's fine.
At a recent mutual friend's birthday, the women all sat round a large table and I stood with the men. No one cared. Trying to infiltate a group of already established female friends is extremely difficult for some personalities. Group dynamics tend to be set very early on and if you don't fit in you don't stand a chance.

I have always found one to one situations easier too, as people tend to act differently in group situations than when alone.

I like mumsnet. Most on here are lovely, caring, weirdos and often very funny. But just like real life, there are those who flat out refuse to see anyone elses opinions, other than their own, as valid. And just like real life it can, at times, be cliquey and bitchy.

Disclaimer- I have never had, or know anyone who has had a pillow fight.

Seeyou, what is with with all this 'not knowing how social interactions work with the Female of the Species' stuff? Have you ever met any women? Do you have a mother? A sister? A daughter? Have you ever gone out with or married a woman?

I have close male friends and colleagues, a brother, a husband and a son, and don't recognise your version of male relationships as purely transactional either. Are you actually saying male friendships rest either on fixing one another's stuff or 'anecdotes down the boozer'?

The only man I know whose entire friendship group does actually rest on mutual fixing of stuff is my father, but he is a retired radio ham with Asperger's, whose friends are pretty much entirely retired radio hams with Asperger's.

The problem is ijustwanna, red doesn't have to do anything to suit an agenda - you're making the bullets she's firing.

I get that it can seem upsetting to be called out on sexism when you don't feel you are. Perhaps look at how little effort red needs to put in to expose the sexism though - by simply changing the two subjects but leaving the rest the same you can see how ridiculous it reads when applied to colour. It reads just as ridiculous when applied to gender.

It's a shame that this thread has turned into a debate about sexism rather than a discussion about the OPs actual problem. Being in a similar boat myself I was hoping to read some advice...

Seeyou, what is with with all this 'not knowing how social interactions work with the Female of the Species' stuff? Have you ever met any women? Do you have a mother? A sister? A daughter? Have you ever gone out with or married a woman?

I've witnessed them as a viewer, never from within as I'm not a woman. There is only so much a spectator can glean from the act of witnessing.

Ime yes, the vast majority rest on a simple trade relationship. Not necessarily just based on the three examples I gave but there's certainly usually a trade off. Guys tend to gravitate to those who are useful in someway.
Very rarely will a man ring another guy for a chat or just to catch up etc. It'll be more, "can I borrow" or "Fancy a pint?" Or "I need a hand" etc.
Obviously this is based upon my own 36 years, 20 of which have been in factories in the Midlands, so mayhaps things are different in different environs and social circle?

It's a shame to see people's friendships attacked and reduced to men v women. That won't help the op or anyone else either.

Or fuck it, maybe it will. Have you tried ditching those bitchy cliquey women and making friends with some men? They're inherently more accepting.

Sorry, SeeYou, I sounded far brusquer than I meant. I still think 'spectator' sounds as if you don't actually participate at all in the lives of any women - and what about male-female friendships? Whose rules operate?

I can quite believe that male collegial relationships in a factory situation might operate differently to the same collegial relationships in a university. I'm in the Midlands, too, and DH is taking our three year old to London tomorrow to see two female friends of ours who have just had a baby together. Not a pint, car bonnet or PC in sight. And my closest male friend is an American who lives in Ireland, and we have hour-long Skype chats when life permits.

But isnt 'fancy a pint?' just a different way of saying 'fancy a chat?'

justwanna I don't know if you are being obtuse on purpose?

People are challenging the sexist stereotype that groups of women like certain things and behave a certain way just because they are women. You can't get away with these sorts of stereotypes when applied to race any more: "I don't get along with the black people" is not an acceptable attitude any more.

Somehow it is still socially acceptable to think women behave a certain way because of their xx chromosome. (Hey, maybe that's why all women put a string of xxx everywhere?)

A lot of people (myself included) think this is sexist rubbish.

Or maybe Cassie there are simply those who are reading far too much into my comments due to their own opinions and attitudes. Unfortunately, in reality, there is no great all accepting sisterhood that so many seem to envision. Just people. True friends can be male or female. It is not exclusive.

It's also facinating that those few that have jumped on my posts and fiercely attacked me claiming I'm some sort of traitor/woman hater, have proved my point about 'fitting in'. None of the others who have shared similar life experiences as mine have been attacked or been accused of hating women.
I may not word things very well sometimes, and can be very blunt, but to claim I am sexist because I find it easier to make friends with men, and then to twist my posts into racism etc to try to prove a none existant point is ridiculous. And the reaction a little extreme to say the least.

Ijust, it sounds awfully like internalised misogyny. Are you surprised that you find it difficult to get along with women when you have such fixed and limited ideas about what they are like?

Oh and I'm not upset in the slightest about being 'called out on sexism'.
There are also those who can't seem to understand that when it comes to social behaviour, men and women do act differently. I never once said all women behave a certain way.
Again people do seem to get off on twisting my words. There are those who love to see things that are not there and jump on a bandwagon to attack.
Couldn't give a flying fuck what your opinion of me is tbh.

Unfortunately, in reality, there is no great all accepting sisterhood that so many seem to envision. Just people.

Exactly. Some if those people on this great big planet of ours will share your interests. Some will be men. Some will be women. You can't and shouldn't discount either.

OP ime you just need to keep trudging through. Popular culture sells us a kind of lie, that we should all be Friends style friends and anything outside of that is the lone weirdo. Obviously that's not true and some people will have one or two friends, some will have loads, and some will be in between. None of them are wrong.

If you're struggling I advise not giving a fuck about those who are less than friendly to you. The snipey bitch? Cut the dead weight. I had one a while ago. A very long term friend that through time and distance I drifted from. I realised one day he only ever interacted with my fb to post something mean or disparaging or disagree with me. So I deleted him. Why would I keep that kind of negativity in my life? Have a look at which friends add something to your life and which ones don't.

mild
You didn't sound brusque :)

The only female relationships I have now are my OH, Mum and DD bit she's only 2.5.
I had a female friend once, but we drifted apart after she got a new BF. He thought I was her gay friend at first, when he found out i was straight he threw a hissy fit and she picked him.
As for whose rules rule a M&F friendship, I don't know really. I never minded fixing shelves or mowing lawns for my female friend but she helped me eqully with other things. So maybe that trade off equates to a male orientated friendship? But at the same time it was give nd take?

Interesting isn't it?
Maybe that's the answer? Maybe all Friendships are give and take and maybe it's just the more you have to give the more friends you'll make? But then that doesn't explain those who just seem to take?

(My head hurts now.lol)

I think sometimes when people are kind and gentle people mistake it for weakness and don't feel like they have to keep on the right side of you or see you as a pushover

^^ This.

I was going to ask if she gets away with talking to you like that - if you ever call her on it.

You can be nice - ask her if she is OK as her comment reads very techy, you can be nasty - what crawled up your ass and died - or just plain - I don't like they way you are speaking to me.

I expect she does it because she can and you may find other take note and copy.

Mild do fuck off with the pscyhobabble. Fixed and limited ideas of what women are like? Seriously? Because that would actually imply that I have fixed and limited ideas of myself too. Which by the way, I don't. I just accept that people respond to other people in different ways.

Would it make you feel better to know that my 4 year old DD thinks all boys stink?

Gosh, IJust, your persecution complex (see, more 'psychobabble') makes it hard to see how you have any friends of either sex.

I think that you are trying too hard and also taking everything people say to heart. I was sat last night in a baking hot restaurant so if I'd seen your status maybe I'd have posted 'can't believe you are cold lol, if only', it would be a mindless reply to a mindless status, no more no less.

People can be off/ not want to engage for many reasons, they are tired, feel ill/depressed, are in a hurry, don't have time for new friendships plus many others. None of these things are anything to do with you personally . You also can't change it if someone doesn't want to be friends only change the way you think about it and react ......

'Persecution complex' helpful language there