Husband and I constantly argue about money and have totally different views. I can't work out who is being unreasonable?

[cleoteacher]

We have totally different attitudes to money. I don't know how to solve it and we have had another blazing row. I just don't know who is right or wrong anymore.

Basically he had a text from his mate to go out for drinks. He wanted to go but I reminded him he is low in his account. This leads to him ranting at me that it's my fault he can't go and I am dictating how he's spending his money and he earns x amount and only gets x amount of this. He's very mine, mine, mine in my opinion.

He then argues it's my fault because I got him a pair of trousers out of his account, which were less than half price. He argues these should have come out of the joint account and he didn't want me to get them for him. However , I thought I was doing something nice as the previous night he came home complaining that he urgently needed new trousers for work. I asked him twice before I brought them online if he wanted them and he said he did but is now saying he didn't want to upset me by saying no.

He then argued he should get it out the joint account as I had. £150 recently from a £450 tax rebate into my own account and the rest into savings and he had paid £1,000 bonus into the savings account recently out of a £2,000 bonus. The other £1,000 went towards the deposit on a car I didn't want.

He says I micro manage his money and constantly blames me for the fact he can't have nights out or new clothes. But he gets a set amount of money every month and chooses to spend it on other stuff so doesn't have the money for these things. He wants to get overdrawn to buy these things but I don't want to get overdrawn after spending years in our overdrafts and have worked bloody hard to get out of it. I know he's only talking about £10 or so snd he says he would make it up the following month but I feel like he wouldn't, he's very reckless with money. Plus I get half the amount he gets and I manage to buy clothes etc with that money without going overdrawn so feel while I work really hard to manage my money so should he. He's not willing to sacrifice one thing for something else like I am.

I want to save and feel we should underspend in our own accounts and use this to put into extra savings which he doesn't want to do as he doesn't care about any of the things I want to save for. Yet he wants a weeks holiday abroad next year and likes a warm house now we have a new boiler, all of which we only have due to my careful management of money.

So I get his point about being too controlling with the money but I feel I have to be of we would never have the savings. I don't dictate what he spends his money on I just ask him to stick to a certain amount which he says he can't do and should have more as he earns x amount plans only sees a small amount of that money.

I try to be a nice person about it and have got him a new paid of shoes as an early birthday present recently even though I had earmarked that money for some shoes myself. I just can't see who's right it wrong anymore.

Please be nice.

I see both sides, this is what I think would be reasonable:

All money goes into joint account.
Set aside X amount for bills/rent/mortgage/petrol/council tax/childcare/household necessities etc.
Put X amount aside for the children (clothes, trips, clubs etc)
Put X amount in savings.
Whatever is left, gets split EQUALLY between the pair of you into separate accounts (why on earth does he think he's entitled to more money?!) to be spent as you wish.

He shouldn't have to buy work trousers or shoes out of his money, that's a necessity to come out of the joint budget. If he wants to spend his money on gadgets and trips to the pub, fine. If you want to save some of yours, that's fine too. But you don't get to dictate what the other one does. That's not fair.

Meanwhile the H is now spending £400 a month on himself

It isn't on himself though is it if petrol etc has to come out of it.

If it was my DH that would be at least £160 a month for starters.

I do think your DH sounds like he's acting like a child. A spendthrift child. And I understand that you are trying to prevent getting back into debt.

But I am bit worried about how much handle you really have on the finances - you shouldn't need to worry if petrol comes out of the joint account that there won't be enough to save - you should know what your average months' spend on petrol is (or be able to work it out pretty quickly) and then you can negotiate the savings/fun money split from there. Maybe he gets a bit less than £400 into his account now? That might be what needs to happen.

It sorts of sounds like you both rush into decisions without having really properly thought them through. You need a redundancy/shit-hits-the-fan fund more than you need new decking. By all means save for both at the same time - you'll get there slower, but so what? - but if you spend it all on household things first you're going about it the wrong way. You can't get much for second-hand decking when you've lost your job and still need to feed the kids.

Also, open your own savings account. Up to you if you decide to top up the joint savings with your own money at the point you want to purchase the new curtains or whatever, but just keep it separate for a while. That's your security cushion, and I do think it will help to make things clearer for you.

Money is a flashpoint. I do think you should consider seeing a relationship counsellor to talk about it in a neutral space while your kids are young.

Op I cant wade through all the pages but Yes to a degree your controlling his money and it sounds like with god reason.

One person needs too if a couple want to do things and one is not great with money.

I think you need to re organise it all again and leave him to his own financial devices but without taking from - affecting your main accounts.

DH and I run pocket money accounts. Personally if he agreed to X per month for savings, there should be a standing order set up the minute the pocket money hits his account, so there's no way he can back out of it.

DH and I do necessary clothes and petrol from joint account, and the amount we get a month for pocket money reflects this.

I presume he hasn't saved anything for Christmas presents, and there will be more expenses going out etc in the run up to Christmas.

Keep saving your amount, but to be save I'd put it in an Isa in your name. If ever you wanted to go away with friends, treat yourself or buy a car or something it's your money, do it. Otherwise it's there for a rainy day, and it's yours.

You want him to cut back on clothes/ going out etc so you can buy decking, pictures for the house but he doesn't want to do that.

It's the H who is looking at the decking and wanting to buy pictures. He just doesn't feel he should pay for it.

No he doesn't want those things full stop if it mean cutting down on clothes/going out. He isn't asking OP to cut back so he can have them. He has different priorities to OP.

Well I completely disagree with most posters on this thread!

He is a spender, a selfish, fucking prick of a spender that views everything as what's in it for him. He doesn't consider you and the DC as his family that he is responsible for.

In his world, he earns his money, so he should get to buy whatever the fuck he likes. The fact that he has a wife on ML and two children should not mean that he should be in any way inconvenienced by not being able to spend all his money on flash cars and gadgets.

Basically, his order of priorities goes:
1 - His needs
2 - His wants
3 - His children having a basic home
4 - His drinking in the pub.
5 - His children having a nicer, comfortable home with heating and carpets.
6 - Having savings in case he loses his job because that stresses him
7 - You and your needs.

I can't believe people think he is reasonable. He earns say money, out of that he needs to pay towards joint bills and pay towards the house and secure future for his children, which may sometimes mean he has less to spend on his own frivolous things. Heaven forbid. What a bitch you are, OP!

He is fundamentally a selfish prick. I don't think you can change him. If I were you I'd let him have his 400 a month to piss away however he likes, (I'd maybe try asking him to restrict his overdraft with the bank to maybe 200 pounds) and if he overspends then he'll just have nothing bf left next months. That will be the consequences of his actions.

He's a knob.

What?! He saves hundreds a month. Why shouldn't he have some money for himself once everything has been paid for? The OP doesn't say ANYWHERE that her DC are going without. [hmm\

aye if you read the thread, you would see all bills are paid and several hundred pounds are put away in Savings before anything else

AyeAmarok Perhaps you should read the thread properly. There is no suggestion that the bills aren't being paid or that they owe money. Money is being saved but OP wants to save more than he DH does. She also has different priorities when it comes to spending e.g. he prefers clothes and going out to decking or pictures for the house. Neither person is right or wrong. They just have different priorities and need to compromise.

Well said, AyeAmarock

Marynary - OP isn't the one who wants decking. The DH is the one who wants the shiny petrol guzzling car, the new clothes, the decking, the night out at the pub and he wants it all now.

Sadly I recognize the character quite well .

I'm not sure he's as terrible as AyeAmarok says - quite often with DH it's just an impulse decision that he talks himself out of once he sees the finances, but it sounds as if the DH wants to have his slice of the cake and the OP's as well if she's daft enough to continue to put it in joint savings.

They have only just started saving by the sounds of it: before that they were paying off big debts!

And he just bought a car on finance.

Marynary - OP isn't the one who wants decking. The DH is the one who wants the shiny petrol guzzling car, the new clothes, the decking, the night out at the pub and he wants it all now.

No OP said he looked at the decking but when OP told him that they would have to cut back on other things to be it he decided that he "wasn't bothered" i.e. didn't want it after all. I actually don't see what is wrong with that! Decking is no more essential than clothes/going out.

be

Duck demon- yes that's my point I do see him as quite selfish. He spends his. £400 on lunch every day at work, petrol and TV on finance and so can't afford clothes and so wants more money. I see the lunches and TV as luxaries and feel if he wants clothes or shoes a certain month he should take his own lunch a few days a week for that month and then he could face them. I find it hard to reason that he should get clothes out of our joint money when he's spending his own money like that and is not willing to sacrifice anything even for month or so to pay for them. Whereas I have £250 and if I want clothes and nights out I sacrifice something else to get it and don't expect it to be covered out of our joint money.

Work clothes are boring but I buy mine from my own money and manage and we agreed that clothes would come out of our own money. Now he wants to change the barriers! If we decided to get petrol and all clothes etc from joint money there's no way we would have £300 left for the savings.

I suggested he just get some cheap shirts from sainsburys for work, I get cheap work clothes from there, but he's having none of it. He only wants the expensive branded stuff. But moans when he doesn't have the money.

As for the amount of savings we have. We did have. £3,000 which we spent on a boiler. A mutual decision. Now we have no savings again and need to build it back up.

Interesting point about wages being paid into our own accounts and money. I will think about that and discuss if with him. The only trouble with that is my earnings fluctuate a lot and I don't get any income some months of the year so I would have no spends at all. It doesn't help that our situation is conplicated.

Some people have clearly not read my posts properly. I will explain the shoes one more time. I paid for them out of my money. He wanted them and was looking anyway. Found he didn't have the money without going overdrawn so I said I would buy them out MY money for his birthday present. They aren't solely for work either, he will wear them casually too I imagine. I didn't choose them for him.

Plus I didn't tell him he couldn't go to the pub. I asked if he could afford it as he mentioned he needed petrol and I know he would want to buy his lunch everyday at work until payday. I don't have a problem with him going to the pub but knew he'd want to go and then still buy lunch out everyday at with until payday instead of choosing one or the other like I would. I suggested he invite his friends round here and I would buy some beer during the next weekly shop for them. He didn't want to do that. It's all or nothing with him.

I think I am pretty good at compromising and fairly flexible actually. I make lots of money saving suggestions to get around the issue which he doesn't want to know.

They just have different priorities and need to compromise.

They have different priorities all right.

Her priority is the family.

His priority is himself.

Plus I didn't tell him he couldn't go to the pub. I asked if he could afford it

No you didn't ask him as in your OP it actually says you reminded him he was low on his account which to most people would be I don't want you to go

I do feel his priorities are himself yes. I feel he's quick to have the money for meals out etc when he wants of new Tvs but doesn't have the cash for new clothes. But I am married to him now and I don't think he's going to change so the only answer is to compromise as I don't want to still be arguing about money in 20 years time.

Work clothes are boring but I buy mine from my own money and manage and we agreed that clothes would come out of our own money. Now he wants to change the barriers! If we decided to get petrol and all clothes etc from joint money there's no way we would have £300 left for the savings.

To be fair though you also change the barriers by expecting him to save some of the "fun money". He needs to understand that he can't use the joint account for "fun" but you also need to stay out of what he does spend his "fun money" on. You both need to agree on exactly how much you save and spend and you are both going to have to compromise to do this.

BathtimeFunkster I don't think that decking or pictures for the house are more essential to the family than going out and having fun or clothes.

You both sound like you are constantly moving the lines and neither of you compromise much.

You have got into a cycle of trying to head each other off before the other does something.

OP, I hope you can get this sorted.

Personally, I don't think fun money should be used for petrol. Nor do I think either of you should be expected to save your fun money if you don't want to.

Your DP is rather silly if he wants to waste his fun money on lunches for work. Could you encourage him to bring something from home 1-2 times a week and show him how much extra he would have per month?

I don't think he should have to pay for necessities (petrol to get to work, uniform form work) out of his "fun money". He needs his job to pay the bills, so it's a necessity, and should come out of joint funds. If he's paying for that each month, he actually has less than £400 to himself because a decent chunk of it must be going towards petrol.

It doesn't mean you put less in savings, it means that's paid for before you divvy up your personal spends. I think you'll find, though, that after he's paid petrol, he probably doesn't have much more/month than you do to spend on frivolities - petrol is expensive, especially if you drive to work everyday.

How do some people make it so complicated?

We have a joint account. We pay in 75% of our salaries into that. The other 25% is ours to do whatever we like with e.g. buy the other a present, go and waste £50 on something frivolous. Anything 'ours' comes out of the joint account so mortgage, bills, groceries, petrol because without that neither of us can work, car maintenance, doesn't matter who's car is who's we both were happy with each car when buying etc.

By doing a % you both realistically have a fair amount left each month for 'you' too.