Husband and I constantly argue about money and have totally different views. I can't work out who is being unreasonable?

[cleoteacher]

We have totally different attitudes to money. I don't know how to solve it and we have had another blazing row. I just don't know who is right or wrong anymore.

Basically he had a text from his mate to go out for drinks. He wanted to go but I reminded him he is low in his account. This leads to him ranting at me that it's my fault he can't go and I am dictating how he's spending his money and he earns x amount and only gets x amount of this. He's very mine, mine, mine in my opinion.

He then argues it's my fault because I got him a pair of trousers out of his account, which were less than half price. He argues these should have come out of the joint account and he didn't want me to get them for him. However , I thought I was doing something nice as the previous night he came home complaining that he urgently needed new trousers for work. I asked him twice before I brought them online if he wanted them and he said he did but is now saying he didn't want to upset me by saying no.

He then argued he should get it out the joint account as I had. £150 recently from a £450 tax rebate into my own account and the rest into savings and he had paid £1,000 bonus into the savings account recently out of a £2,000 bonus. The other £1,000 went towards the deposit on a car I didn't want.

He says I micro manage his money and constantly blames me for the fact he can't have nights out or new clothes. But he gets a set amount of money every month and chooses to spend it on other stuff so doesn't have the money for these things. He wants to get overdrawn to buy these things but I don't want to get overdrawn after spending years in our overdrafts and have worked bloody hard to get out of it. I know he's only talking about £10 or so snd he says he would make it up the following month but I feel like he wouldn't, he's very reckless with money. Plus I get half the amount he gets and I manage to buy clothes etc with that money without going overdrawn so feel while I work really hard to manage my money so should he. He's not willing to sacrifice one thing for something else like I am.

I want to save and feel we should underspend in our own accounts and use this to put into extra savings which he doesn't want to do as he doesn't care about any of the things I want to save for. Yet he wants a weeks holiday abroad next year and likes a warm house now we have a new boiler, all of which we only have due to my careful management of money.

So I get his point about being too controlling with the money but I feel I have to be of we would never have the savings. I don't dictate what he spends his money on I just ask him to stick to a certain amount which he says he can't do and should have more as he earns x amount plans only sees a small amount of that money.

I try to be a nice person about it and have got him a new paid of shoes as an early birthday present recently even though I had earmarked that money for some shoes myself. I just can't see who's right it wrong anymore.

Please be nice.

I think it's pretty unreasonable to tell another adult they can't have a drink with a friend. I think it's incredibly cheeky of you telling him what he can't and can't spend when he earns twice as much as you do. I wouldn't stand for this type of behaviour from a partner I'm afraid. Unless you are the one subsidising him you've no case.

Being completely honest, would it be fair to say you think that ideally you should make all the financial decisions and take financial control?

There's just no "give" in your posts at all. You are repeating the same points, from your own point of view. It's really clear there is no flexibility at all and you can't see any other point of view.

I understand you might not want to say how much you have in savings but it sounds like a fairly good sum, you have a substantial income and disposable income. Yet there is no way you can see for your DH to have a tenner for a drink? No room for manoeuvre at all.

You do come across as massively controlling to me, and if you make any attempts at compromise you cast yourself in the martyr role. I can see why your DH is frustrated to be honest.

We were thinking of getting the garden done this year and he straight online looking at posh decking etc but when we argue about actually saving towards this suddenly he's not bothered. We could be out and see a lovely picture for the house which he wants for the house. We might get this but then have less money for something else. That's fine as I dong want to take away our ability to buy something we like and we have the money within reason to do this but he won't then be willing to cut back and save to replace that money spend on said picture. He likes the idea of all this new household things and goes online and looks for it all and designs a whole new garden but isn't willing to put in the effort to actually save to get it. I find this extremely frustrating.

You present yourself as a saver rather than a spender but actually the more you post the more it seems that you both spend. It is just that you want to buy different things than him.
You want him to cut back on clothes/ going out etc so you can buy decking, pictures for the house but he doesn't want to do that.

Wait a minute - you are on ML and don't have any money - all the money you have comes from your DH.

I would be completely pissed off if I was earning a few grand a month and then being given £100 a week spending money but then couldn't spend it on what I wanted to. I would also be pissed off if my bonus went into a pot and couldn't spend a tennerf going to the pub.

sorry but I don't think your doing any compromising because you don't earn anything.

HIS money pay for something he NEEDS for work and this gets called a birthday present on a day that isn't his birthday? Just call the next food shop at ALDI an early Christmas present and pay from his account.

I think you are being a typical mum, in thinking that YOUR money is for the family. Where as your DH thinks HIS money is for him and only him.

Put your spare money into your own saving account not in to the joint one.

Wait a minute - you are on ML and don't have any money

Unless you are married to a financially abusive cunt, when you are on maternity leave you have access to the money generated by the family you are doing your part to support.

Why can't he have his wages paid into his own personal account and transfer over a percentage of his salary to the joint account?

You do the same - your income into your own account, transfer the same percentage into the joint account, all bills come out of the joint account.

The remaining money in each personal account is sweet fuck all to do with the other person.

If one of you has an overdraft facility on your account that you wish to use, knowing you can keep within the terms of the overdraft, who the bloody hell is anybody to tell you you shouldn't do that?!

He is an adult, don't suck the joy out of him being financially confortable thanks to his hard earned.

Also, the work trousers should have come out of the joint account. How is that fun money? He didn't even get to choose them!

It's sounding like with things like buying a picture for the house or getting the garden done that you want him to save up for them from his own personal spends rather than the joint savings but these are joint expenses this is partly what the joint savings should be going towards once you have enough. You talk about wanting him to repay the money when you buy things like that. It sounds like what you really need to do is relook at the savings and set up at least one more savings account so you have one for long term savings to cover things like loss of job but also another savings account for household items for example doing the garden up and the simple answer is if you want something and the household savings can't cover it then you can't afford to buy it and will have to wait.

splitends that's exactly how DP and I have had our accounts the whole time we have been together, and it works.
If either of us is short there's always a surplus of a few hundred in the joint account to pull a tenner or whatever from is needs be, and it's always replaced. (done just in case a bill increases one month or something)
DP would have left me a long time ago if I told him he couldn't spend his last £10 going to the pub, if that's what he wanted to do.

haha, reni. I'll tell dh that the bumper bag of loo rolls I've just bought is his anniversary present.

The work trousers and shoes "present" is the equivalent of men buying their wife a vacuum cleaner for Christmas.

How can it be fun money if you have to buy work trousers out of it?!

He is rebelling because you are making his life a lot more boring then it needs to be. Unclench. You are still saving a decent amount.

If he goes overdrawn, he goes overdrawn. That will be his problem.

Petrol, childcare and work clothes/shoes are esssentials and should come from a joint account. Fun money is genuine fun money for you to spend completely as you wish on non essential things. Any left over money here can be saved in your own personal saving accounts.

I ask for pictures/ smaller household luxuries, as christmas and birthday presents or buy them for myself. They are more important to me than DH. Although DH does like and benefit from these they would not be at the top of his priorities. So I can't see a problem with you buying these from your "fun" money - although this should not be the unfair split it currently is. It should be equal £400 therefore by default, you would have more control over the spending on these household bits.

Bigger furniture/decking/cars should be agreed upon. I agree with a pp above that there should be definite saving splits. Some for long term security which should be put into a special account and should not be touched except in an emergency and some into another savings account for big ticket expenses. You can't buy stuff if there isn't money there - be that a new car or decking. This can be topped up by left over money from the joint account.
Your own fun money should be unregulated and uncontrolled. If it becomes a problem it should be adressed then.

I think the only major decision you need to both make now is how much should be in the "not to be touched except in an emergency" fund. And to get the spending money equalled out. You should both get £400 (giving you more control over the household bits you want to buy).

The rest is just how to allocate money for spending. Short term fun money and then the medium bigger ticket items that you both need to agree on. This way there is much less room for ambiguity. It may look like there is less savings on paper but in reality it makes things easier. Just agree on the "not to be touched saving" threshold.

A bit confused by the "overdrawn" term. Worrying about being overdrawn is when that's it, you don't have any other money. It's a bit of a loose term when overdrawn means a particular account and you've got a heap stored elsewhere.

You want him to cut back on clothes/ going out etc so you can buy decking, pictures for the house but he doesn't want to do that.

It's the H who is looking at the decking and wanting to buy pictures. He just doesn't feel he should pay for it.

I really can't bear people who call you out for something they have been consulted about and agreed to and then disown the decision and state 'I didn't want to upset you' So what changed then? He wanted the trousers and now he wants a pint too. I agree if you have ££££ in savings then a tenner for the pub isn't much to ask but being a stroppy little mister and asserting his earning power is massively unattractive at best.

Do you go out much Cleo? Does he look after the DC?

I think it's good petrol comes out of the joint account.

Tbh I think £400 a week to piss up the wall is more than adequate and your DH needs to grow up a bit if he doesn't have a tenner left.

Yes maybe the work trousers aren't fun, but how often would he have to buy new ones? Twice a year maybe? So that's what - £100 out of £4800? Not exactly loads?

We are flexible with our fun money eg we will pay less into savings in December to pay for xmas stuff. Maybe you could do that to allo2 for exceptional costs.

You do need to butt out of his account though and leave him to it - the whole mother-child dynamic is really unhealthy. If he goes overdrawn he can save up again to pay it off can't he.

£400 a MONTH.

£400 a month. He doesn't get £400 a week!

I'm the saver and DH is the spender in our relationship, difference is that he isn't overdrawn and we both have the same in spending money.

It's tedious being the one always saying no to stuff. Last Christmas hols we spent about 20 hrs traipsing round bathroom designers as the ensuite bathroom is falling apart. I kept asking can we afford this, as DH is the one who handles the family finances in the main as he's a contractor and balances dividends and so forth with the money going out. Turns out we couldn't afford it once DH did the sums - only realised it at the point where we'd almost got the work started. It is frustrating.

Or again we needed new curtains in the living room. The old ones were serviceable but unfashionable. DH rips them down on Christmas Eve, leaving a bit of a gap whilst we had people over the festive period, then we have to rush out to John Lewis's to get new ones and poles etc. All at JL expensive prices as quality is apparently very important.

I have to try to remember that I go the opposite direction at times. If it were down to me we'd probably never get anything done in the house. Holidays are my only luxury.

It's difficult to know who's being unreasonable without knowing how much you have in savings?

I'd say as a starting point don't subsidise the family savings with your own. Hide that away in an ISA somewhere and keep it to yourself unless you literally have no money left for a mandatory repair like heating or car breakdown.

Then keep out of his personal account. If you feel the need to be helpful and buy him trousers again, text him before you do it and buy it from the joint account as you're the one who decided to do it.

I would be a tad annoyed if I couldn't go out with a friend as someone else had decided to buy clothes with my money.

Beat you to it Patrick - £400 a month is plenty IMO.

They are just out of what sounds like quite a bit of debt (costing £1000 monthly, now paid) and apart from what OP is seeking to build up to spend on agreed things they have no savings, eg incase of ill health or redundancy. And OP doesn't earn much freelancing (which presumably they both agreed she should do after DC instead of a better paid job).

Meanwhile the H is now spending £400 a month on himself, has bought a "flash car" on finance, and wants even more money!

Selfish.

I think OP should ask the DH to post his point of view

I am confused.

All the bills are paid

You then agreed a set amount to save each month....that's being saved.

You agreed a set amount for eachother for 'fun' money.

But the OP wants them to save from their fun money too?

Even though they are saving around £300 per month?

Yes he is being a dick wanting even more fun money. But that maybe in part because its not fun money at all and he is under pressure to save more and more and not spend £10 down the pub.

It all sounds quite unhealthy.

Agree, Enjolrass, and he might be a tad pissed off that his fun money is used to buy essentials and to add insult to injury those essentials he paid for with fun money are then called "birthday presents".