Husband and I constantly argue about money and have totally different views. I can't work out who is being unreasonable?

[cleoteacher]

We have totally different attitudes to money. I don't know how to solve it and we have had another blazing row. I just don't know who is right or wrong anymore.

Basically he had a text from his mate to go out for drinks. He wanted to go but I reminded him he is low in his account. This leads to him ranting at me that it's my fault he can't go and I am dictating how he's spending his money and he earns x amount and only gets x amount of this. He's very mine, mine, mine in my opinion.

He then argues it's my fault because I got him a pair of trousers out of his account, which were less than half price. He argues these should have come out of the joint account and he didn't want me to get them for him. However , I thought I was doing something nice as the previous night he came home complaining that he urgently needed new trousers for work. I asked him twice before I brought them online if he wanted them and he said he did but is now saying he didn't want to upset me by saying no.

He then argued he should get it out the joint account as I had. £150 recently from a £450 tax rebate into my own account and the rest into savings and he had paid £1,000 bonus into the savings account recently out of a £2,000 bonus. The other £1,000 went towards the deposit on a car I didn't want.

He says I micro manage his money and constantly blames me for the fact he can't have nights out or new clothes. But he gets a set amount of money every month and chooses to spend it on other stuff so doesn't have the money for these things. He wants to get overdrawn to buy these things but I don't want to get overdrawn after spending years in our overdrafts and have worked bloody hard to get out of it. I know he's only talking about £10 or so snd he says he would make it up the following month but I feel like he wouldn't, he's very reckless with money. Plus I get half the amount he gets and I manage to buy clothes etc with that money without going overdrawn so feel while I work really hard to manage my money so should he. He's not willing to sacrifice one thing for something else like I am.

I want to save and feel we should underspend in our own accounts and use this to put into extra savings which he doesn't want to do as he doesn't care about any of the things I want to save for. Yet he wants a weeks holiday abroad next year and likes a warm house now we have a new boiler, all of which we only have due to my careful management of money.

So I get his point about being too controlling with the money but I feel I have to be of we would never have the savings. I don't dictate what he spends his money on I just ask him to stick to a certain amount which he says he can't do and should have more as he earns x amount plans only sees a small amount of that money.

I try to be a nice person about it and have got him a new paid of shoes as an early birthday present recently even though I had earmarked that money for some shoes myself. I just can't see who's right it wrong anymore.

Please be nice.

Ok, unless the man actually has some actual disorder around money, then it is vastly unreasonable of the op to be commenting on his spending much less refusing him a tenner for the pub when he's just put a fairly large chunk of his bonus into their savings. Arguably there's no need to save to the extent you can't go to the damn pub.

The car? Water under the bridge, stop being sneery about it and enjoy. You agreed to it, it's done.

The savings? You agreed a plan, stop pressuring him to do more with his fun money. Is it fun money or not?

The moaning? Just be sympathetic and pass no real comment. Don't offer solutions, don't comment on his lunches, don't buy him trousers.

Housy stuff takes years to put together. It sound like you are pressurising yourself to get it all done in a hurry. That shit's as expensive as a car and probably not as useful. It's def no worthier than the car tho personally I'd want both sigh

Seriously though, that argument you described at the start is a v bad place for any couple to be. If you both don't find a way of managing your differing priorities and expectations, you may not last. Bit blunt but there you are.

Sorry Chaz my post was to Wits, timing of it means it looks like I was being snippy at you, I wasn't! You're right, they should both get their priorities acknowledged.

Enjoy your dinner at the Ritz while your DH eats down the road at Pizza Hut, you can always chat to him on the phone from your respective position in society seats!

Truthfully DH would probably prefer Pizza Hut given the choice.

If you two managed to pay down debt at £1000 a month, you clearly can focus on agreed goals - so you are financially compatible to a good extent. You must feel frustrated if you can only manage £300 savings on the back of such strong work. your posts suggest you have lots of saving priorities - fear of redundancy and a nice house being the two main ones. Have you agreed what size of pots you need to save for these? It's all quite vague. If it's a loose 'save everything we can' then I can see why your husband is pissed off as there's no clearly defined rules or goals, so it's hard to get excited about. until you're clear on what you're saving and why, chances are he's going to continue to rail against you.

Except that she can't buy the curtains, carpets etc (which is a joint purchase for their shared home, btw) because he spends the savings on the things he wants, like a new car. Seems he gets first dibs on the savings for things only he wants, because he earns more and thinks it's his.

He doesn't get first dibs on the savings and I am certainly not saying that he should. They both need to compromise. That might mean that OP doesn't get the new curtains and carpets as fast as she would like but so what? The items may for the shared home but if it isn't really an essential item and he doesn't particularly want them, I wouldn't really consider it a joint purchase.

I have read every post here and feel really sorry for you op. It's actually fairly familiar to me.

Anyhoo, I wanted to make the following point: having a lease car/ car loan is a REALLY expensive way of having a car. It's a debt.

I have really strong opinions on car 'fleeces', but I'm not sure this is the place for them!

Basically saving (with interest rates being low) whilst paying for a depreciating car is not the best use of money.

We use YNAB and it has really helped. It's about allocating money before the month begins.

Good luck whatever you decide!

Have you tried budgeting together? As I said before, the week before the end of the month I sit down and think of all conceivable expenses from the joint account, lunches out, new pair of jeans etc. Then I tell dh what I have covered and ask him if I have missed anything, he can then tell me what else he needs. If he has a work meal out, needs new shirts or whatever. This is all counted within joint spends, then I work out what extra can be saved. The automatic savings go out onto their respective accounts as soon as we are paid, I am talking about the extra surplus that goes to overpaying mortgage, normally between 2-500 a month.

If you did this he might feel more heard and you can see at the beginning of the month what extra you may be able to save.

We use YNAB too. Great software, and very helpful for setting priorities. Most of the issues in your relationship with money between the two of you are directly related to differing priorities, OP, not right or wrong, as I tried to suggest way upthread.

IMO, order of priorities should be Needs then Wants. Everything in these lists I would try to make come from the joint account, but the difference is that I would work my way down the list allocating money in this order, NOT subtracting £650 from the salary first off (£400 for him, £250 for you) and then trying to make the rest of it stretch...

Needs:

Housing (mortgage, council tax, gas/electric/water bills, home maintenance fund i.e. savings for boiler or roof repairs)
Food & other consumables (cleaning stuff etc.)
Clothes (basic needs for a family of 4 to clothe & shoe everyone)
Transport (car payment/savings for a new one, petrol, car maintenance, other car costs)
Childcare
Insurance (house, life etc.)
Savings for the future (pensions, an "oh shit" income-replacement/redundancy fund)
Medical/dental (prescriptions, DenPlan or whatever)
Gifts (Christmas/birthday - could be a "want" but realistically with kids you'll spend on this anyway)

Wants:

TV/internet/entertainment packages
Mobile phones x 2
Going out as a family (days out, theatre tickets)
Kids extra expenses (classes, after-school activities, toys, pocket money etc.)
Savings for kids future
Holidays
Convenience food (coffee out, lunch at work)
Hair & beauty/self-care
Clothes (over & above the basics)
Eating out
Household improvements
Shiny New Tech equipment (iPad etc.)
Charitable giving
Pets
Hobbies/Gym subs etc.

I'm sure there's loads more...

Some of the things in "wants" could get split out to your fun money accounts, but if you can aim to get it working from the one pot and THEN split to the fun money calculation you'll find a lot of the flash points are gone, because you're already saving to the important things so you'll have a cushion, and he'll have cash to waste. Or not! You may find you're actually not quite as well off as it first appears, and be forced to address that.

Either way - you don't agree to petrol from the int account PLUS £400, you agree to "yes, petrol from the joint account but let's look at what that will do to the rest of the finances".

We are ynab lovers too.

Squirrel that's an interesting idea. I will look into that. It could stop arguments about what does and doesn't come out of our joint money. But I think we would find it hard to budget certain amount for future meals out etc as husband would feel very restricted if we said right we 're only spending x amount tonight. We did try that before and it took the fun out of the event having to stick to spends.

Aye- you've hit the nail on the head. That is exactly the problem. We don't so much argue over what he spends its the fact that he runs out of money every month and so can't afford clothes and so blames me. That then leads into an argument about how he's spent that money and so why he cant afford clothes. He then wants money from our joint money but I want to use any spare money from our joint money to overpay on our savings. Yes, he would have gone overdrawn if he'd gone out with his mate as he wouldn't have cut back on anything like lunches the following week to compensate. So I feel it's unfair for him to go overdrawn and get everything he wants when I work hard and sacrifice things not to get overdrawn in my account and our joint account.

I don't mind not having an equal amount of our own money. If we did we wouldn't be able to sAve as much and I d rather save. I find my £250 enough to get what I want.

I love the idea of our priorities for what we spend our saving on being alternated. That way we both get what we want and I feel like we 're making progress with household things. I think this would really help to reduce the number of arguments. Although it will be interesting to see what he puts down as he has everything on the list he wanted already.

The car is a major sticking point. I know getting it on finance is the worse way. He signed contract without me. We are committed to paying it off for the next 6 years out of our joint money. There were so many other things we could have spent that money on imo. I have left it now though because it's done and we could argue forever over it. I guess that's one reason I have the attitude I do though I kind of feel now it's my turn to get something I want.

Although it will be interesting to see what he puts down as he has everything on the list he wanted already.

well it shouldn't be difficult for him to understand that now it's YOUR turn to get what you 'want' from the savings you will accumulate (by which i mean the things that were on the list before but you couldn't buy them cos he decided to spend it all on himself)

it took the fun out of the event having to stick to spends Tough - that's the whole point of having a budget-sticking to what you can afford You either cutback on something else you want from that budget to afford the nice meals you want - or you earn more money. If neither of you can agree on that then you forgo the meals out.

Btw my dcs are far from deprived. They have a lovely life and I often think how lucky we are all to myself. Their health and well being comes before anything for husband and me. They are not rolling around on dirty carpets, they are clean but old and various random colours. Just because he spends too much and wants a flash car and more, more more does not mean his kids are neglected as a result. Anything kids related comes out of our joint money and they get whatever they need/want (within reason, they're not brats) before we think about our own money.

Did he agree to you going freelance? If I was working long hours and earning a lot, I'd be miffed if my partner packed in his job to go freelance and then tried to control my spending. After maternity leave, could you look to return to secure employment rather than freelancing? There would then be more room in the pot.

I think you should have an equal amount of fun money, as long as he has agreed to you freelancing and earning less out of choice. However, petrol and work clothes shouldn't come out of the fun money - that isn't fair if he works more than you and therefore needs more petrol. Fun money is just that - for the fun, frivolous things that people want to treat themselves to after a long week at work. How you spend this fun money is up to you. Checking up on someone's account is as bad as reading their emails or opening their post, and is not on.

YABVVVVU about the fact that you wouldn't "let" him have a pint with his mates after he has just paid his hard-earned bonus into your joint account!! If a partner controlled me to that extent, sorry to say this but I'd be evaluating whether I wanted the relationship to continue, and would have gone out without your "permission". Both people need room to breathe. He sounds slightly feckless, but you sound intolerably controlling.

Yes we agreed I would go freelance. I was finding the stress of my old job too much and it was taking over my life. This was over 6 years ago. I do often think our money situation would be so much better if I had a better paid job but both dcs aren't in school yet so it's just not possible to go back to study. Once dc2 starts pre school I will look into going back to studying and getting a better paid job.

He did pay half his bonus into the joint account but then the other half went towards a car he wanted and I didn't, which is now taking up £240 of our joint money. I also paid nearly all my tax rebate into our joint account too. Although this wasn't nearly as much as his bonus the total percentage out of the amount of what I paid into the joint account was more.

I ve decided I am not going to look at his own account anymore. I didn't used to purposely go on and look at it anyway. It's with the same bank as our joint account so comes up whenever I log in to look at our joint account. The amount in the account is always there so I can't not see if if you see what I mean. I wasn't sneaking a look and using his log in details as both accounts have the same log in details.

Later, I am going to go through the joint account and see how much we would have left once petrol starts to come out the joint account. I was hoping to save more than £300 a month but don't think we will if petrol is now coming out of it too.

Cleoteacher please don't beat yourself up about your job. If you were say a nurse you'd obviously be earning less than your DH - it doesn't mean you are any less worthy of having a say in the family finances and whilst the DCs are young, not being in paid employment for as long as your DH certainly doesn't mean you aren't working as hard as him.

It is really hard when you have a different attitude to finances than your partner - I'm exactly the same, and I really have to watch myself as sometimes I can't see what's reasonable - DH likes to change car every 3 years and that seems excessive to me - I'd happily drive my old banger into the ground, but is normal amongst his circle - and what's excessive - I still hate the horrible mid-life-crisis sports car that soaked up a large amount of our retirement funds and can't wait until it's sold.

I cope with it mostly by sticking my fingers in my ears and going la la la a lot - it's not a great strategy, but ultimately we aren't in debt, I have insisted DH puts a lot away in his pension each month - he's S/E and as from next year I'm going to start putting a reasonable amount in AVCs for my pension, rather than in share save as that's accessible and therefore seems to be fair game to be raided for new car purchases.

£300 per month is quite a high target when you're on mat leave. Would it be possible to lower it a bit - say to £200 until you are working again?
Maybe unclench about the petrol, it's not like he has the choice not to drive places.

Then try to have a sensible discussion about priorities - saving for a buffer should be number one priority, you and your DH will have to slug it out to see how much of remaining money is left for new car ( although he has already won that one) and for household improvements.

I am the only earner in my household DH is sahd. When I am paid all our money goes into joint account and all bill money is immediately and automatically transferred into the 'bills account'. We do both have seperate accounts but don't really use them, we try and have £100 in each in case we ever lose our main account card or something like that.

We don't have 'spending money' each. All money is OUR money .ie family money. If someone needs clothes we just say 'I need X it will cost y' and then we either buy what is needed or if it's expensive we will decide to save for it instead. If one of us wants to do something regularly (like I want violins lessons) we will discuss it, look at the finances and decide together if we can afford it or not.

We just talk to each other, radical as that sounds. We also trust each other not to just spend without agreeing with the other first.

All this 'pocket money', 'his money/her money' stuff - baffling to me tbh.

We just talk to each other, radical as that sounds. We also trust each other not to just spend without agreeing with the other first.

All this 'pocket money', 'his money/her money' stuff - baffling to me tbh.

Really? It's not baffling to me despite the fact that DH and I are similar to you and just use a joint account. It's obvious you can only do that if you have similar to attitudes to money and spending though. Otherwise there will be arguments and/or resentment. If you have different priorities with regard to money and spending it is best to keep things as separate as possible.

Op, there shouldn't be a pressure on the joint account being used to pay petrol - you cant just stick with the current quotas and expect the petrol to be paid by magic, you need to work out how much each of you spend on petrol and reduce each of the fun money accounts accordingly. It shouldn't give him more fun money, but by changing the allocations it makes it a more honest representation of how much real fun money (ie not petrol) he actually had/has

Bedraggled- if husband is complaining he doesn't have enough money in his own account and so can't afford clothes lowering the amount he has and getting petrol out our joint money doesn't solve the problem. He will have the same amount of money. I am hoping to get petrol out the joint and let him have the same amount so he can have extra cash to buy clothes etc as that is what we argue about.

I ve discussed it with him and amazingly we didn't argue! And our plan of action is-
Put both out pay into one account which is different to the one the bills come out of.
Work out exactly how much we need for regular bills and straight away transfer the money into another account to cover that.
Keep the savings at £300 for now and transfer to savings account as soon as paid.
Transfer our fun money into our own accounts , keeping it at the same and not having petrol come out of this now.
See how much we have left and manage it best we can to try and save extra.
I don't look at his account.

I feel having clothes coming out the joint account wouldn't work as most of my money goes on clothes and I buy fairly regularly whereas husband hardly ever buys. Feel it would cause more arguments over how much was spent by each of us. I buy lots of cheaper stuff whereas husband buys one/two designer items.

Unfortunately we have got into a very tit or tat stage about who spends what rather than it being a partnership as I would like it to be. Feel this would add fuel to the fire.

It sounds like a good solution, Cleo - well done on progress.

Re clothes - you seem really hung up on this. If you both need clothes, then you buy them. If you wish to spend £200 on 10 items, and he wishes to spend £200 on 1 suit, what's the difference? You still have the same amount to spend, regardless of which pot it came from or how much it buys.

If the real reason is that you hate seeing him walk around in his trainers with a hole in, and you feel he should value having more clothes rather than making do, that's a different thing.

Anyway, good luck. Just would mention that you make sure to add in a transfer amount for those irregular spends (i.e. don't just add up your monthly bills to transfer to the bills account, add in some extra so when the boiler needs a service or the window cleaner comes etc there is spare cash in the bills account to pay for it. Surprising the expenses we can forget about if they don't happen every month.)