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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say something to my friend about her filthy cluttered house

155 replies

Mrskeats · 03/11/2015 16:51

Before I go on I can assure you that this is not some kind of stealth boast about my superior household skills
I have a friend who has 4 children one is a young baby.
Her house is an absolute mess and filthy. The baby has been in hospital twice with infections and I am very surprised that the health visitor has not flagged up the house as an issue
The children are loved but they look unkempt and need haircuts etc
They also don't have friends over because I suspect they are ashamed of the place
The husband seems to me a bit of a hoarder and they are constantly ordering more rubbish from eBay
The children rarely go out so I have taken them out several times over the summer to give their mum a break
I would be happy to help sort the place out
How can I broach this without offending her?

OP posts:
Beebar · 03/11/2015 21:35

OP, is your friend's house anything like the one on the DM link??

Blu · 03/11/2015 21:36

I think if she acknowledges that the state of the house is a problem you are half way there. I have been reading this thread thinking 'it's all very well on Mn but in RL broaching something like helping could kill the friendship dead, or make someone retreat further, or whatever.

But if she acknowledges it, I think I would go for a coffee with her, taking kids as necessary, ask her what for her is a priority, and offer to help. Observe the daunting, overwhelming nature of it. Break it down into chunks, concentrate on hygiene and cleanliness rather than the hoarding. She probably needs professional intervention to address that.

ohtheholidays · 03/11/2015 21:37

OP you know your friend so you'll know how she'll respond to the offer of help.

But honestly if the place is that bad and the childrens lifes are being badly affected(from what you've said it sounds like it is)then you really do need to report it,you can speak to the childrens schools or SS and you don't have to give your name.

I really can't stand the posts that seem to exscuse children living like this because of the number of children a family has.We have 5DC and not all of us live like the OP has descibed,our house is always clean and tidy and 3 of the 7 of us are also disabled.

Aeroflotgirl · 03/11/2015 21:44

Op yes having a filthy unsanitary house is a form of neglect, if you are concerned, I woukd call the NCPCC or SS. There is messy r untidy, and there is downright filthy and unfit fir human habitation, especially kids, this sounds like it.

ForChina · 03/11/2015 21:46

I think you sound judgy of her and I doubt he's a hoarder just because you suspect it, in your totally non-professional opinion! The 'rubbish' that they order from eBay - well that's probably just their stuff. Not to your taste, too much of it and not kept tidily, but their stuff and their home. I am also very sceptical of your insinuation that the baby's infections come from having a messy house - seems hugely unlikely.

I think you should keep your nose out. So they don't live to the same standards as you - I'm sure they have their own opinions about you and your life and children.

MeadowHay · 03/11/2015 21:47

Hello, haven't read the whole thread so apologies if somebody has already linked this website: www.helpforhoarders.co.uk/ . I think it's quite informative, would recommend you having a read. I wouldn't advise you recommending it your friend though unless you have a REALLY strong relationship and can find a way to do so that wouldn't be seen as very insulting...for example, my MIL is a hoarder, and me and DH are unsure whether she realises or not, we linked her this website because she is supposed to be sorting through her house now in order to move and we introduced it in a "hey, this website has some great tips on decluttering, we find it really useful, don't worry about the name of it". She took it well (but also has taken not a single further step in sorting out the house).

Major lols at the people saying 'just go in and clean up'. If this is a legitimate 'hoarding' scenario it will make no difference whatsoever if you go in and clean up and will just cause lots of emotional damage to everyone involved. Me and DH found this out the hard way when we spent weeks cleaning out some of MIL's house a couple of years ago. It was an absolutely awful ordeal for everyone involved, and it was heartbreaking to return to the house a couple of months later to find everything in exactly the same state. Hoarding is a recognised psychological illness. If things are binned, they will just replace it with other things. In terms of cleanliness, you can wash up some dishes, you can scrub a toilet - in two weeks time it will be the same as it was.

I feel for you, because I feel this way about my MIL and have tried, and am trying, to help. She has serious mental health problems. Over the last few years the only progress we've made is her acknowledging that she will not be able to keep every single one of her collection of craft magazines (the collection fills a loft, two small bedrooms and half a living room). That is how slow progress can be - but it's still progress. However, I think unless you two are really, really close there is not much you can do at all for fear of jeopardising the relationship and I think in that case everybody would just lose out. If you are concerned for her welfare, and/or the children's welfare, you can call the council/social services and tell them. They may be able to get involved to support them. Some councils even have specialist services for hoarders and can help them clear through the clutter. Again my MIL has used this service, but continually cancels appointments and undoes the work done...I don't think hoarding can end until the hoarder really, really wants it to and voluntarily seeks as much intensive support as possible. Sorry to be a bearer of bad news.

Aeroflotgirl · 03/11/2015 22:00

I totally agree meadow, it will only return to the way it was in a few weeks, so helping clean might well be futile.

Mrskeats · 03/11/2015 22:21

It's clutter and dirt
Think sink piled high and no room in the kitchen to put a cup down

OP posts:
applesareredandgreen · 03/11/2015 22:30

I agree that your friend does need help here. Home conditions as you describe would be linked on by social services as a form of neglect and it is possible that the health visitor may have already put in a referral. (Depending on the area you live and resources available in your LA this may not be deemed as a high priority case)

I think that blu and oddity give good suggestions as to broaching the subject with your friend and offering some practical support with regards tidying/cleaning/helping out with the children. I also think that both your friend and her partner may benefit from some support via their GP . Your friend may be suffering from depression maybe following the birth of her baby and as such simple tasks may feel like climbing a mountain, hence everything getting on top of her. I'd agree that her partner also needs professional help regarding the hoarding but I have no idea how you would be able to broach this.

Darvany · 03/11/2015 22:32

My parents used to describe my sister as a hoarder but she wasn't. Yes, she had a lot of cutlery and crockery but that was because she couldn't be arsed to scrape plates and wash up from one week to the next. Or empty ashtrays. She had twenty piled high at one count.

Same with the laundry. She had lots of clothes for herself and the DC and was continually buying them because she would only put a wash on once a fortnight if that.

TheDowagerCuntess · 03/11/2015 22:38

I think you sound judgy of her and I doubt he's a hoarder just because you suspect it, in your totally non-professional opinion! The 'rubbish' that they order from eBay - well that's probably just their stuff. Not to your taste, too much of it and not kept tidily, but their stuff and their home. I am also very sceptical of your insinuation that the baby's infections come from having a messy house - seems hugely unlikely.

I'm far more inclined to believe the OP's take on it, than your down-playing dismissal of it, given that she's actually seen it.

The number of people who've come onto this thread to react defensively, admit their house is a mess, and say they'd be horrified if someone offered to help... well, unless you live alone, it's not just about you, is it? I would've absolutely hated to grow up in such a house, and have absolutely no control over the surroundings. Inflicting such a living environment on others, especially children, is unfair (under-statement).

SurferJet · 03/11/2015 22:40

I have a couple of friends with 5 children - their homes are spotless.
Some people would have messy homes if they had just a couple of kids, it's personality type more than anything.

nortonhouse · 03/11/2015 22:43

Darvany And you don't think your sister was a hoarder because?!?! ...

suzannecaravaggio · 03/11/2015 22:54

I often wonder if the hoarders home is an external manifestation of inner feelings?

As per pps if you help her to sort it the inner energy pattern will just lead to the same situation

Yes I know that sounded a bit crystal healingBlush

ForChina · 03/11/2015 22:55

Naturally tidy people always describe the things that naturally messy people have as 'rubbish' or 'junk'.

It seems to be terribly fashionable to 'diagnose' people as 'hoarders' on these boards but in reality it's quite rare and most people are just a bit cluttered and messy.

The OP's tone sounds judgmental about their choices so even if they need help, I don't think she is the right person to offer it.

suzannecaravaggio · 03/11/2015 22:55

It seems terribly unfair to that kids....living like that

Darvany · 03/11/2015 22:56

Because she didn't hoard anything? Confused

Just mountains of unwashed dishes, clothes and rubbish.

Oh, and a few dangerous animals belonging to equally dangerous men.

TheDowagerCuntess · 03/11/2015 22:58

Don't assume everyone on here is naturally tidy. I'm not. Not many people actually enjoying cleaning and tidying, but they do it anyway to live in reasonably pleasant surroundings.

Darvany · 03/11/2015 22:59

Sorry if I have misunderstood and "hoarding" cigarette butts in ashtrays which topple onto the table where children eat their food is as acceptable as having too many ornaments.

Happyminimalist · 03/11/2015 23:00

Surfer - Hoarding is often linked to loss.

Also dyslexics can struggle with house systems and can find it hard to keep on too of stuff as a result. I'm one!

I have learnt though that the less you own, the easier it is to keep an orderly tidy clean house.

Part of my problem is that DH is away Monday to Friday and so it's just me with 4 kids and no support mostly. Having a handy partner who works from home or who has a short commute, makes a huge difference

MrsJorahMormont · 03/11/2015 23:01

The FlyLady book is quite gentle and encouraging if your friend isn't in a great place. Quite American and twee but really kind in a 'we're all in this together' sort of way.

And YY to offering help. When clutter gets to a certain stage it's impossible to start tackling it without help, especially if you're anxious about throwing things away, which many hoarders are.

DisappointedOne · 03/11/2015 23:02

Here's a thing. I'm pathologically messy. I literally can't function if everything is out of site. My sister is OCD about everything being spotless and can't sleep if anything is out of place. Same parents, grew up in same house etc.

A psychologist friend suggested on hearing of this that I am the way I am because I need to see that I have everything I need to be comfortable in the world. This extends to having fully stocked food cupboards, cars with at least half a tank of fuel in them on the drive and a lifetime's worth of wrapping paper.

My sister on the other hand hates the thought of having too much. She's got real wanderlust and needs to know that she can pack and unpack everything she owns quickly. She never buys too much of anything no matter how much cheaper bulk buying is (I have 84 toilet rolls out in the garage). She says she "rattles around" in her compact 2 bed flat while I bought a 3 bed house for myself to live in.

Neither is wrong and neither is right. We just agree to disagree.

DisappointedOne · 03/11/2015 23:03

I'd suggest Marie Kondo's book over Flylady. My kitchen sink may not shine but my socks are folded beautifully! Grin

luciole15 · 03/11/2015 23:23

Mrskeats, you're clearly a lovely friend. I wish I had a friend or family member who would help me out. My place is a disgrace, but nowhere near as bad as your friends' and I am embarrassed to have anyone in. I would jump at the chance of some help. I have been chipping away at stuff this evening since DC went to bed and am thankful I don't have four kids to look after as well as a lazy husband.

All those suggesting you report them to SS or whatever... just not a nice move, (the implications for the family could be really serious) but then the OP seems better than that.

Thanks and Wine for being a good friend. I wish there were more people like you in the world.

almondpudding · 03/11/2015 23:32

I agree with Luciole15. Your thread has helped me, Mrs Keats, and I hope you are able to help your friend.