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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To say something to my friend about her filthy cluttered house

155 replies

Mrskeats · 03/11/2015 16:51

Before I go on I can assure you that this is not some kind of stealth boast about my superior household skills
I have a friend who has 4 children one is a young baby.
Her house is an absolute mess and filthy. The baby has been in hospital twice with infections and I am very surprised that the health visitor has not flagged up the house as an issue
The children are loved but they look unkempt and need haircuts etc
They also don't have friends over because I suspect they are ashamed of the place
The husband seems to me a bit of a hoarder and they are constantly ordering more rubbish from eBay
The children rarely go out so I have taken them out several times over the summer to give their mum a break
I would be happy to help sort the place out
How can I broach this without offending her?

OP posts:
Happyminimalist · 03/11/2015 18:34

How outrageous to flag up photos of a murderers house when pointing out a hoarders house! I'm sure there are lots of killers who have extremely tidy uncluttered and disinfected homes. I know two hoarders and they are probably some of the best parents I know despite of the messiness. They give their kids a lot of quality time. OP if you really want to help, first find out if she actually wants help. Helping her go through her stuff (and her kids stuff) and removing it from the house will be most helpful. It's so much easier to clean when the clutter is gone.

Bettercallsaul1 · 03/11/2015 18:45

It sounds as though any improvement you could make with helping to clean and declutter would be swiftly erased as your friend would not be able to maintain her new, cleaner house, OP. This is a chronic situation your friend is in and not eligible for a quick-fix solution. Your friend actually needs either regular support to clean her house - which you probably are not in a position to provide - or a long-term solution, which would be up to her and her husband. As pps have said, hoarding is a serious psychological condition which will not just disappear without professional help.

You are in a very difficult position. You are a good friend to be concerned about this situation but sometimes, with the best will in the world, all we can do is be available in case your friend asks for help, including discussing things with her. If you continue, as you are doing, to see her and are sympathetic to her predicament, she may turn to you when the time is right.

Chippednailvarnish · 03/11/2015 18:47

You sound very kind OP, it's a shame that more people who are struggling and could do with a hand don't have friends like you.

I had a boyfriend in my teens whos parents were like this, he wouldn't let anyone in his house because he was so embarrassed. His younger brothers rarely had their clothes washed and they looked dirty and scruffy. In retrospect I wish I'd told a teacher as their parents were clearly neglecting them. Your friend may not be at this stage, but its better to offer a hand then ignore it.

gabsdot · 03/11/2015 18:55

I posted a similar thread recently and I'm wondering if there is a way to offer to clean someones house without offending them.

DisappointedOne · 03/11/2015 19:04

I'm pathologically messy - have been my whole life. I would not take any suggestion of someone coming in to "help" well.

Original poster
Mrskeats · 03/11/2015 19:06

Thanks to those who see I only have good intentions. I think I will just offer more help
My daughter loves kids and could come and help with them whilst we attack the house.

OP posts:
almondpudding · 03/11/2015 19:22

MrsKeats, that sounds like an excellent way of approaching it.

Gabsdot, I think if you looked at the kind of things said on FlyLady maybe. It is about being encouraging without making out that the process will be really easy, which could sound judgemental.

bronnie98 · 03/11/2015 19:23

Depends how bad the filth is OP? Are we talking neglect here? Leaving rotting food out is a red flag.

Ps you don't sound judgemental at all you sound like you actually give a fuck - unlike some of the horrible people who comment on here.

RedButtonhole · 03/11/2015 19:24

Please don't ring social services before asking her, tactfully, is she needs some support.

I have been struggling recently with my mental health and one of the major issues was that my house ended up in a mess because I couldnt face motivating myself to deal with it on top of everything else.

The worst thing in the world to me would have been for someone to report me to social services, but if someone had reached out to me I'd have admitted I was struggling and sought help. From the sounds of things, your friend is not in a good place at the minute and needs support, maybe suggest she speaks to a doctor as well if she isnt coping with things.

cardibach · 03/11/2015 19:37

I second whoever it was who said that the health visitor would have flagged it up if the children were actually at risk. Some people on MN have ridiculous ideas of what signifies clean/dirty - how do we know the OP isn't like that?
Two posters have mentioned 'rotting' food. OP doesn't say that - she just says food is left out - this could mean just between lunch and dinner, for example.

bluesbaby · 03/11/2015 20:10

Mrskeats

Could you gently find out if she even thinks it's a problem herself? Because that's your biggest problem - whether she sees it as a problem or not.

Maybe she can't cope, or maybe she doesn't care!

I've known families like this, so I can imagine what the house is like for you to be worried... there is a big difference between a cluttered house and a filthy house. TBH, we had to stop contact with a family because it stressed me out so much and I wanted to call SS but because it was family no one else wanted to (or wanted me to). The house was like a squatters place, the cast of Trainspotting would have felt clean there, honestly. Bodily fluids were everywhere, it was so unsanitory. I'm guessing (maybe wrongly) that your friends are like this. If they are, you may just have to walk away.

treaclesoda · 03/11/2015 20:12

Slight Fox when I said I had a lot of experience with hoarding, I meant as a carer for someone who is a hoarder, rather than as a professional myself.

But, having said that, I have been involved in meetings with psychologists /mental health professionals and social services in connection with this and my understanding is that hoarding can run in families. Certainly the hoarder in my life has a mother who hoards (to a much lesser degree though) and two children who hoard. The children are teens and like the girl you mention, won't part with childhood clothes etc.

With regard to the health visitor, I'm not sure if I agree that they would necessarily flag it with social services. In the case that I'm involved with, the health visitor never saw the parent in her own home, only in the baby clinic surgery, so she had no way of knowing. It's pretty common where I am for health visitors not to do home visits unless you are a first time parent.

Original poster
Mrskeats · 03/11/2015 20:30

She does acknowledge that the house is a big problem but I think it's got so bad she doesn't know where to start.
It does stress me out a lot and it upsets the children.

OP posts:
soimpressed · 03/11/2015 20:40

I had a friend whose house was similar to the one you describe. Her kids were well cared for but the house was filthy (and my standards are pretty low!).

But her house was like it because she simply didn't care about doing housework. I'm an early riser so if I was staying with her I would get up about the same time as her kids. They would make their own breakfast and watch TV until their parents got up at about 10 or 10.30. My friend would then often spend time reading, chatting with friends or doing craft or other things with the kids. She seemed oblivious to the state of the house but would always seem grateful if I had washed up or cooked a meal.

As her daughter grew up she hated the state of the house and kept her own room, out of bounds to the rest of the family, clean and tidy.

coffeeisnectar · 03/11/2015 20:48

Ok she knows it's become too much for her to deal with so what about suggesting a pre-Christmas clear out that you will help her with. Say you can start with one room and have three piles. Skip it, keep it, sell it/charity shop. Suggest a car boot sale so hubby can flog some of his stuff. See if there is anyone who can help out either with decluttering or cleaning or looking after the baby and kids.

Say it's your gift to her. Because you care and want her to be happy. Then help her set up a cleaning rota and get her husband a shed for his crap!!

ghostspirit · 03/11/2015 20:49

I have been in a simlar situation to your friend op. I sometimes slip back but no where near as bad as i used to be. I had a friend who helped me. She kind of took charge. And made it feel possitive. And we would have a laugh whilst doing it and get the kids ropped in as well. And we would ralk about how we are going to decorate each room so i felt there was something to aim for. She was very update and it felt so positive and up beat. She did tell me i need to sort myself out though and i have.

5BlueHydrangea · 03/11/2015 20:59

Go in gently. Having your dd offer to play with the kids is a good idea.
I have some hoarding issues. It is difficult to deal with and I sometimes feel overwhelmed with an area and don't really know how to sort it out.
My Dad tries to help. When I was away for a few days recently, he tidied up a messy counter in my kitchen. It looked really tidy but I (a bit irrationally) felt angry with him for touching my stuff! I don't like people sorting it but am not very good at sorting it myself!

Cleanliness however is different. My house is messy but pretty clean. Would not tolerate dirty toilets etc so if that is the case then yes, some practical help may be good.

Iflyaway · 03/11/2015 21:07

I understand your concern but frankly I would be horrified if someone called me up on the state of my house and offered to help clean it....

From what you have described this is a whole lot worse than two friends helping each other out in turn for a fun clear out/swap of unwanted stuff and a bit of hanging around each other's house while drinking coffee/doing brunch.... or wine and tapas

They both sound overwhelmed.... You must be a good friend to want to help. However, don't undermine your own time in living your own life.

I think professional help is called for though. Don't get overly personally involved or you start to look like a busybody who can't mind their own business. That breeds resentment.

CherryPicking · 03/11/2015 21:14

I disagree with the posters saying you cleaning it won't help. Part of the problem is you can't remember how it looked clean - you can't visualise it. So whizz in like

Happyminimalist · 03/11/2015 21:16

Maybe you could help her, then she could help you in a different way.

CherryPicking · 03/11/2015 21:17

...like mary Poppins and just get stuck in. She'll probably feel like getting stuck in herself once you've made a dent in it. Sometimes you just need the carrot of a shiny sink rather than the threat of children's services. At least give it a go before you do anything drastic.

Blondeshavemorefun · 03/11/2015 21:18

how filthy is filthy? as in rubbish mounting up or just lots of clutter/belongings?

food left on the side isnt good as can attract flies/maggots and if falls behind surfaces then rats and mice eventually

sounds like she knows she needs help so maybe suggest tacking a room one at a time together

dont call ss, tho understand your dilemma,im a nanny and mn and did safe guarding children and abuse etc recently and sadly neglect comes under abuse

you say they are loved and thats good, tho they need their needs met as well including somewhere clean and hygienic to live

hopefully together you can get on top of it

can they afford a cleaner for a few weeks to help out?or is it beyond that?

Lucked · 03/11/2015 21:26

I am very messy and my house is not as clean as it should be (but I don't think any red flags!) and I would hate anyone else cleaning my mess.

What I find useful is people taking things away for me. Perhaps say you are having a big clear out and will be making trips to charity shop/dump and if she has anything you could pick it up. It must be pretty hard to get to the dump with 4 kids and your DH is a hoarder so will probably never go.

Also ,speaking as someone whose DH isn't great at throwing things away, if you DH has all this stuff that you want rid of you can start ignoring your own clutter as you don't have a problem. I have made a big difference in this house just sorting out the things which are mine.

TheOddity · 03/11/2015 21:30

I think I'd very gently say you have noticed its getting her down, say she can tell you to sod off but you'd love to help out while your dd looks after kids even just cleaning and piling the clutter into one room/ corner will be a big start. Even if you just do the kitchen and kids bedrooms. Buy kids some new bedding as a special treat to make it look extra nice at the end. But do be aware people usually feel a level of resentment or anger to the helper, even though you are doing a good turn. But I would go ahead for the sake of the children and her mental health.

TheOddity · 03/11/2015 21:32

Lucked suggestion is great too. Hardest part for hoarders is letting go though so you may find she doesn't have 'permission' to throw what she feels needs to go.