Is it me or DH who is unreasonable over best friend.....

[woolythoughts]

This is long – and I’m not sure what info to include (so as not to be accused of drip feeding) or not (so as not to be accused of stealth boasting) so I’ve just put the basic facts. I know I’m going to get flamed for this.

I have a really close friend who I’ve known 15 years who predates my DH by at least 10 years. Over the years typically she has earned a lot less than me ( by about a factor of 8) and when her ex left her she ended up in an IVA – so financially she’s not rolling in it and never will be. She does make some stupid choices what to spend her spare money on (that he doesn’t agree with) e.g. she drinks far too much but to give her credit, it cheap plonk she’s happy with.

She never ever ever asks for anything but most of us have got used to doing nice things for her. Example, she’s going to a concert this weekend with another friend of ours and the other friend has paid for her ticket as there is no way she could afford it herself. When she comes to stay with me, I buy her train ticket (I live several hundred miles away) as otherwise she couldn’t afford it. However, if I’m working in London or near the south east, I can crash at her place (I have the keys) as often as I want and I’ve often stayed at her place when she’s been away on holiday etc. It pisses my DH off that I buy take away if she’s there when I stay and that she never offers to cook for me.

So, the current bone of contention. I’ve always given her my cast of IT equipment. I’m a bit of a gadget freak and often upgrade just because I can.

Earlier this year, I realized I didn’t use my ipod touch as all my music was on my phone – so I gave it to her and she uses it every day.

I have a laptop that had been sitting unused for nearly two years (was top of the range mac book pro about four years ago so still more than useful) so when her’s died I said she could have a loan of mine on the understanding that should I ever need it back for work (I’m freelance IT consultant) I could. I seriously doubt I ever would need it and if it were just up to me I’d give it to her but it was a “loan” to appease DH. He’s now belly aching that I could sell it for £350 on ebay or to a neighbor of my mother’s whose just broken his. I’d rather she use it than sell it for £350. We don’t need the money.

So, I’m now selling my ipad air as I’m upgrading mine to the ipad pro next week. With it is a keyboard I paid £100 for but to be honest, I doubt I’d get much second hand. She recently got given an ipad air for her birthday by her mother so when I sell mine to one of those buy your mobile companies, I’m going to give her the keyboard that I used. DH is adamant I should either charge her for it or let it sit on the shelf rather than she have it. I gave her my original iPad 1 – the very original that came out in 2010 back in 2012 and she used it until it gave up the ghost this year. What I’m trying to say with that is, she doesn’t just take things for granted and is genuinely appreciateive.

I think DH is just being spiteful he thinks she’s a freeloading twunt. I love my DH but he is the kind who would try to sell sand to Arab’s and charge them double the market price if he could get away with it.

Who is being unreasonable?

Your DH is being mean. Your friend is lucky, and clearly also a good friend.

Even personal savings are taken into consideration when divorcing. So you can't just squirrel away money and say that's mine. Everything has to go into the melting pot even pensions.

Has he looked at the cost of overnight accommodation in Londin and the SE, for these business trips of yours? That earn you seriously good money?

However, like what you do with your cast off equipment, it isn't really his business.

Are you sure he isn't jealous of your longstanding friendship?

Seriously, once your joint bills are paid, joint savings saved, each have an agreed and fair amount of 'disposable ' income, tell him to mind his own business and that you will not be discussing with him what you sell or give away.

I realise that Vivienne which is why I said "pay back whatever proportion is deemed fair in any settlement". By putting her share of the savings in a personal account it simply protects it from disappearing in the event of the split. This man is very money orientated so could very well be the type to empty any joint accounts before he had even packed a bag.

I have seen that happen many times on MN and while a judge can demand they be paid back, actually getting hold of any money is another matter altogether.

One MNer even fell victim to her husband cancelling the utilities and taking the credits that she had paid! It happens.

He sounds horrible, mean, jealous and spiteful.

You sound lovely.

Your friend sounds like a great friend.

But, in law, yes anything bought within a marriage is legally jointly owned. Why is that so hard to understand?

I thought this was wrong, so I googled it. From Citizen's Advice England:-

You are entitled to acquire and to hold any land, property, savings or investments in your own right during marriage. The same is true for your partner. Any property you owned prior to the marriage will usually continue to be regarded as yours. However, if the marriage breaks down, any property owned by you or your partner will be taken into account when arriving at a financial settlement on divorce.

In the absence of any agreement to the contrary, wedding presents given by your friends or relatives are considered to be your property if the marriage does not take place. The same is true for your intended partner. If the marriage breaks up, they are considered to belong to the partner whose friend or relative gave them.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/#h-money-and-possessions

He has and supported me in the past and will do in future - I have no doubt about that. We are not having kids, I don't want them (but I like the non kids stuff on mumsnet so don't shoot me). He's got kids from a previous marriage (and pays his CSA every four weeks on the dot like a good boy) so no issues with kids. I do get grumpy when his ex wife tried to get him reassessed every six months because she doesn't believe he's not earning most of our money (never done a days work in her life so I think the concept of female bread winner is alien) but that's a separate issue.

When we first got together, it was when my finances were at their lowest and then I got hit by a slump in my field and was out of work for four months - i'm effectively self employed. He worked all the hours god sent to cover everything.

I think he's concerned about what would happen if I was out of work again however as long as we have 12 months mortgage payments saved (which we have) then the rest of our outgoings can be covered from his basic wage without any overtime. And if I don't get another gig within 12 months, we're more than **ed anyway and got bigger problems.

In terms of what staying at hers is worth - well nights when I've been working in london but planning to go home and then been stuck behind a fatality and have just shown up on her doorstep (or been there when she got in for work saying surprise!) have more than paid for themselves.

I dont stay at hers as often as I could because I don't want to take the total pee and we can be a bad influence on each other where wine and food is concerned and if I have important meetings the next day. .......

Thanks for the input everyone, I just wanted to check my logic and I wasn't being blinded by loyalty.

Assuming she is genuinely using everything you give and not selling it on immediately for cash, I think it's fine. If your DH bought you a present and you were gifting that to her I think he would be more justified, but not if they are things you have bought.

I do this with my Mum, give her 'old' phones etc. I think it's a very nice thing to do if you can afford to do so and it sounds as though she appreciates it.

She seems to waft thru life on peppercorn rent and lots of expensive gifts. I'd maybe ask for some token amount of money for such expensive items tbh or, stop giving them so frequently. Inexpensive stuff like clothes or perfume you didnt like that was unwanted, fine, but you are giving really expensive stuff! Even a reconditioned laptop like mine which looks new, was £100 off Amazon. (I live in london and dont earn a lot/struggle).

She's had a good run but at some point the real world will come crashing in, her Landlord who doesnt know the going rate for rent will pass on or sell the flat and she will need to pay full rent etc. Enabling her freeloading is lovely of you but you arent really doing her any favours. She needs to budget for things she wants not rely on generous friends.

The friend earns £26k. A not inconsiderable salary for people who work, for example, in caring professions, for charity, in lots of sectors! And she won't be the only Londoner keeping her fingers crossed that a long term tenancy is secure. What evidence is there that she is 'wafting', or a freeloader?

Sazzle makes good points on her post. Because even though I think the OP has the right to give her friend the equipment nobody likes to see somebody taken advantage of financially. So on second thoughts maybe the partner has got a point with this friend.

Hmmm.....the first thing I felt was that the DH resents the friend as she pre-dates him.....it just seems really petulant to be giving you grief over items / gifts which you admittedly don't need and don't need money for......

I think the fact people are happy to give her stuff and the landlord keeps her rent low, just shows what a genuinely nice person your friend is. You do not sound like a niave who is being blackmailed into handing over precious possessions just again a lovely person with a nice friend and who is probably very aware of the Hassel that is selling secondhand tech on eBay.

Please stop calling the OP's friend "a freeloader", seriously stop it.

She earns £26k and may live in a private rented place. That won't be cheap but perhaps she is a good tenant and the landlord wants to keep her.

The £26k might not fund anymore than rent and living costs, it's nice that her parents help her by paying her journey costs to them but that's what decent parents do....unless of course you plan on referring to your own children as freeloaders if they live on small salaries and you offer regular support.

She doesn't ask the OP for these items. But gratefully accepts them if offers as might I. She sounds like she has really appreciated the iPod.

None of you know what her real circumstances are so stop with the "freeloader" comments. It's nasty, judgemental and says a great deal about those of you making the comment.

Yanbu, your dh is.

If he is so bothered, you can tell him it's in lieu of hotel bills- staying overnight in London at short notice would cost you fairly dear, a few cast off IT bits are little pay for that as a stand by facility.

Or you could just try to explain that in a true friendship people do what they can for each other, as and when they can, and that is worth more than all the money in the world.

Just tell your H not to be so silly, that it is none of his business and he does not get to be 'adamant' about stuff and expect to be obeyed.

Because he has no right to tell you what to do with your belongings. The only way to deal with a man who gives you orders is to laugh in his face and do whatever you planned to do anyway.

YANBU, basically.

But I am interested to know if you would spontaneously give your friend the cash value that your DH sees these items as having - clearly he wouldn't, but do you see the things you are giving as effectively worthless because they are getting replaced so are surplus to your requirements/not worth your faff to sell, or do you see them with the same value that he does and are deliberately choosing to gift that value?

(I don't think that he is actually BU to not take a £350 gift to a friend lightly, although given that it is a relative drop in the ocean for you rather than half of next month's rent, I still think that YANBU either)

Your DH sounds a tight arse.

One of my best friends became a multi millionaire while I was still a poor postgrad student. When we met up she would pay for my meals (lobster & champagne!). I'd pay for coffee. I remember her saying to me once 'look if it was the other way round you'd pay for me & it would just be stupid for you to pay given the circumstances'.

It sounds to me as if she would pay/pass on stuff if your roles were reversed, so she's not a freeloader & your DH needs to wind his neck in.

I don't think we can judge without knowing her.

It mat be she's genuinely lovely, gives more than enough back in emotional support and other things that have no monetary value.

Or it could be that she is an expert in just happening to mention she needs a new laptop but can't afford one as soon as she has picked up who may have the best spare one.
That sort of thing is very hard to see when you're the one being used... I've both been used without realising and spotted when someone else was in that situation and they couldn't see it until it got ridiculous.
They never ask for anything, just happen to mention it's died and they can't afford another just after you updated yours. You feel a glow at being able to help them, and they get the stuff for free. They take it protesting all the way.

My best friend in the whole word is worth more to me than any material posession.

She's also a single mum on IS and has a disabled child, I have found many a tactful way over the years to fund nice things for her and her children, stuff like holidays and Christmas. Yet I still have not come even close to recognising the true value of the support she offers me.

If I got a husband who had such a gross attitude towards her I would sell him on eBay then I would probally spend a large fortune on improving her life just to make a point.

Of course I would justify this to myself by remembering just how much the option of using a room in London 24/7 would cost even if I only used it twice a year

they can't afford another just after you updated yours. You feel a glow at being able to help them, and they get the stuff for free. They take it protesting all the way

Are grown ups these days not able to take responsibility for what they chose to give away and why?

Do they give away things they don't want to give away to people they don't want to have them?

Yanbu I think you are a gem of a friend. I have a few friends who I do this for, it's so tiny in comparison to a genuine, true friend.
My dh is the same. I know your dh's type though, he'll always be looking for the negative in a situation or what he can gain.

If I earned many multiples of my friends' salary, I would pay for the takeaways all the time too. If I had the key to their flat and could turn up unannounced, then I definitely would not expect them to "host" me in the sense of cooking for me like you might if you were there at their specific invitation.

If the IT equipment wasn't wanted by an immediate member of my family (i.e. DH) I would give it away to a friend who wanted it.

That said, I think she might pay for her own train tickets to see you, OP. That's a bit much - if her rent's not gone up in 10 years and she earns over £2K a month take-home pay, with no dependents, then I think she could probably manage her money a bit better to afford it. There is such a thing as learned helplessness, which you and your friends might unwittingly be enabling. And if she spends a lot of money on booze, and your DH just doesn't warm to her, I can see how it appears to him.

Carry on as you are, OP. Let your DH sell his own stuff! (I am feeling a teeny bit sad that I don't even have one iPad, let alone several to give away. Poor little me!)