Use of child death as an analogy for sense of loss should be punishable by wearing a dimwit hat for ever more

[wibblies]

Fucking Liz Fraser in the weekend guardian is the latest in a long line of journalists and writers who seem to think this is ok.

Here's a sample of what she has to say in her article about her sense of loss in watching her children grow from primary age into teenagers:

"When the joy goes - and it does, because life moves on and you can’t play peek-a-boo with a 12-year-old who wants to play Minecraft with his similarly zit-infested mates – it feels like bereavement."

"Those young children are dead now. They are gone."

"The bereavement is long, slow and refreshed every day."

Just so you know, Liz Fraser, watching a child grow up as it gets older is really not anything like not watching a child grow up because the child is dead. I know this, because I've tried them both.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who notices this shit? Please tell me you recognise that it's not the fucking same at all? That it's not even a tiny bit similar and that it's crass in the extreme to suggest it?

She writes like a teenager. I have very similar conversations about other people's feelings with my rather machiavellian, autistic, soon to be 12 year old.

Sorry, should that be "livid #haha"? Tweetspeak and all.

She clearly is not very bright if she actually thinks it's her extolling the virtues of beautiful childhoods that has upset people.

Ho hum.

Did I miss the apology? Did she say something after 'I'm sorry if it offended anyone'? Or does she seriously think 'I'm sorry if it offended anyone' is an apology?

I'd like all her tweets published openly so others can see just how foul she is.

She has also blocked me. If I blocked everyone that disagreed with me I would have about 3 people on there. It's pathetic.

Not even "I'm sorry if..." in fact.

Just, "Sorry if..."

Like a sullen teenager.

Lousy writers with no sense of their own limitations ALWAYS play the "troll card" when someone disagrees with them.

Quite, fusion.

To narrow it down to purely logical terms:

wistfulness != bereavement

I should introduce her to the incredible 5 point scale. I should have linked her to it when she gave me the perfect opportunity, earlier.

My mother lost her son when he was 32 and she was absolutely broken. And the cracks widened out to rest of the family.
I can't believe this woman's further tweets.
It's like she lives in some sort of gilded cage.

I'm shocked and saddened at HQ tbh - I never, ever thought I'd be posting that.

^This. x1000

Interesting she's blocking people who disagree with her...what about freedom of speech Liz? Does that only apply to your bollocks?

"Seriously, guys, enough now, yes? You've made your point. It was a poor choice of wording. I have apologised. So let's STOP. "

She really doesn't get it, does she?

This isn't one entity going on and on and on about it. It's a series of people, each saying it once.

It's spontaneous, and coming together here because (contrary to popular belief) MNers are not all Guardian readers. And this thread was the first I'd heard of a national newspaper publishing something so unbelievably crass.

I do not think she has even begin to understand how very, very hurtful her (presumably reflected on, specifically chosen) words are. It's kicking bereaved parents when they're already and eternally down, and is never going to reflect well on someone. A (private) foot-in-mouth moment is vastly more forgiveable than publication in a national newspaper, because although the first is just as hurtful it lacks the deliberate prior thought process that goes into writing an article.

I can see why she's defensive. Showing your insensitivity to the world must be horrible. But much less horrible than facing the world when your child is really dead.

Oh dear. The article is crass. Let's hope the author has given her head a wobble.

Yes it's okay to look back wistfully through rose tinted glasses, of COURSE it is.

She's blocked me too, even though i said I liked the article other than that awful sentence.

There are a significant minority of people who make other people's heartache all about them.

They seriously can't help it and I suppose are emotionally stunted.

We all know them.

They post on fb about how they are missing the loss of their cousins husbands next door neighbour or tell you they know how you felt when you were told your child may have been killed as they once lost their keys.

There's no point in bothering with such people as they really really don't get it.

There is a HUGE difference between seeing your child deceased, having to arrange a funeral and bury them, go through their things (if you can even bear to do so), remember they are no longer here every single day and live knowing you will never hold them or watch them grow up.....

....and them actually growing up.

But no. We are the trolls, aren't we.

Also MNHQ SHAME on you. The way you have handled this is insulting and abysmal.

Cor, she's not being very dignified, is she? She could have written a simple apology for a careless statement, instead of getting all butthurt over being criticised.

'Stop it now!' she protests.

Here's something you just don't get, Liz: it never stops for bereaved parents. Never, ever, ever. It doesn't 'get better with time', you don't 'get over it', 'move on' etc, etc. It hurts forever, sometimes agonisingly so. I know people who did not survive this loss. They ended their lives. It was too painful for them to live. I've stayed up talking to others until the early hours, trying to convince them not to end their lives.

It's not trolling when someone disagrees with you and thinks all the worst of you when you write vile dross like this. Grow up!

Don't feel sorry for Liz. She's a grown woman who has many advantages in life. Don't waste your time feeling sorry for vapid people.

My most heartfelt feelings for those who walk this road with us, whose children have died.

It's very revealing and I certainly won't be that interested in reading anything written by her after this. What on earth is wrong with her that she couldn't just say, do you know what, I didn't think it through and I'm sorry that my thoughtlessness has upset people. And then maybe link to some child bereavement charities or something.

MNHQ - your response on this thread in inadequate.

Agree the HQ response is totally inadequate and they still haven't given a reason my post was deleted.

It's hardly trolling

Slightly different, but my eldest will never live independently. He'll leave home, but it will be to move into 2:1 24 hour care. I celebrate every step my other children take towards independence. If they want to move out & move abroad at least they have the bloody choice.

And I'm very aware from knowing people who have lost their children what a luxury it is for me to to still have my eldest - even if his future isn't what we imagined in the early years.

To call people pointing out how crass she has been 'trolls' shows a surprising lack of self awareness.

KateMumsnet

Apologies - we hadn't seen this thread when we tweeted, and it must have seemed pretty poorly-timed. We can of course see why the language used in the piece might be upsetting to someone who has lost a child

I expect we all guessed you hadn't seen the thread. That's irrelevant. Before MNHQ endorsed that thread, at least one MNHQer would have read it (one would think!) and gave the go-ahead to tweet it. Thanks for insulting all the bereaved parents here. Thanks for assuming that members of your site would enjoy that piece.

I long ago realised that the Guardian doesn't confine itself to good-quality journalism, especially on CIF, and I expect to find some of any paper's writers aggravating. But I also expected quality-control from MN, and that MNHQ would continue to exert some control over the brand, as is appropriate for the "by parents for parents" tagline. In some ways, the MN audience is much narrower than the Graun's.

How could publicly connecting MN to that article be expected to be received positively?

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

... Talking "shit"??? Wtf?

And yes, first time I've said this, but Mumsnet's response is not great here, and it's Mumsnet's users she and everyone else are slagging off.

Liz clearly needs some re-education not being told her writing is just lovely lovely stuff. And yes, it's immature and unprofessional more than anything else - journalists and writers at that level should be better at taking criticism than screaming "troll!" and hiding behind a veil of defensiveness.