WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

At this point of my life I consider being called a transphobic bigot a badge of honour.

Yes. I do as well. And its the absolute nonsense posted on these threads that have spurred me on to feeling this way.

"RickRoll, the next stage is calling trans on women violence 'violence by woman against women'."

Oh, that's pretty much already happened. Remember that IT executive transwoman who raped a woman? It was reported in some sections of the media as a female rape. Peeeeeeaaaak traaaaaannnnsssss...

www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/08/should-twitter-suspend-lgbt-engineer-accused-of-raping-her-wife.html

A wise MN'er posted this on another thread (sorry don't recall who) and it's really stayed with me:

"I don't understand why Trans activists are so insistent in redefining what it is to be a woman, instead of redefining what it is to be a man"

(From memory)

I also want to point out the widely used abbreviation MTF (male to female) is an actual scientific impossibility as "male" and "female " are about sex not gender.

So what people probably mean is MTW (man to woman) Trans person.

Not that I accept that you can choose to become a woman. But while we are talking about using correct words MTF and FTM are not in any world ever going to be correct or accurate.

On the subject of accuracy... how's this for bonkersness? Look for the big tweet halfway down.

LovelyFriend

I think that was the point Germaine Greer was trying to make, albeit it in a blunter fashion. A hellish amount of vitriol was sent her way by certain people/groups and she replied in ways that did her no favours (the Spaniel analogy was particularly crap). I think there was way too much knee-jerking in response to her comments, she got angry and it all went to pot.

Re your first post - because they think we are inferior and they want to redefine women in the way they see fit.

It's like Caitlin Jenner being woman of the year. She's not just a woman, she out-womans all other woman and gets a prize. She also gets to be on the Woman's Hour power list. There are only 10 spots, but one of them is given to a male bodied person who has lived 60+ years as a man and 1 as a 'woman'. It's so fucked up.

Totally bonkers Twits.

I've lost track a bit of what's been said on which thread now between the Tara one, the GG one and the CwD one. But somewhere there was mentioned about the women & equality committee, and the concern that people with gender critical feminist views may have been dissuaded from presenting evidence to the inquiry on transgender issues due to the aggressive harassment from trans activists, as the submissions were not anonymous. I was listening to the women's hour podcast earlier, I think it was yesterday's programme, and they had a section with some of the members - several of whom describe themselves as radical feminists. So maybe there is hope!

As usual I shouldn't be here so I just wanted to say - RIGHT ON SISTERS!

throwback to my youth

and thank you to all the contributors to this thread. It's a fascinating & rich discussion.

My long post upthread was me trying to think through the ambiguities which I, as a feminist born & bred, can see in this sort of situation, particularly around radical feminism appearing to line up with conservative CHristianity over some issues. So I'm grateful to those of you who responded, and especially to mathanxiety for the local knowledge, which puts a very different complexion on this one case. And from the further info people have posted, it really looks to me as if "Lila Perry" is a male (probably gay, but who knows) teen who is bpt comfortable with some aspects of masculinity, which is ALWAYS the problem it seems to me. Maybe s/he's a Grayson Perry/Eddie Izzard transvestite? Who knows.

I suppose that my questions in these sorts of arguments are to do with the nuances & complexities of relying solely and fundamentally on a biological argument, which can be critiqued as essentialist. Indeed, feminist biological essentialism has been very thoroughly critiqued, and not just by post-structuralists such as Judith Butler. Mary Daly's powerful works, for example, don't go down well with socialist feminists. and so on. Multiple feminisms, we must keep saying. But I also absolutely see the necessity of being able to discuss the unique biological aspects of female bodies, and the ways in which gender ideologies emerge from the way we regard those differences. And I don't want to derail this thread, as it's important.

Incidentally, I've read most of Butler, my view is that transactivists have not read her work (and others they cite) with the requisite attention, and if they have, they've misunderstood the import of her key questions about biological defintions of sex, which are not so far removed from Cordelia Fine's arguments as transactivists might think.

And THANK YOU Now I need to go back to smashing the patriarchy in a conference paper ...

Hmmm, Children seeking gender identity advice sees 100% increase, says NHS.

I don't know how to phrase this very well.

I my search to understand myself, I have read extensively and wonder if any of this is relevant to the quieter transwomen? Caitlyn isn't really an activist in the way others in her programme were.

Someone may be able to pick this and phrase it better. Caitlyn talks of feeling different as does Kendall also hypermobile not as girlie as her sisters.

Caitlyn Jenner is hypermobile, to hurdle you must be hypermobile.www.researchgate.net/publication/272825258_Neurovisceral_phenotypes_in_the_expression_of_psychiatric_symptoms Hypermobiliy is linked to autism. autism-help.org/adults-aspergers-sexual.htm

To expand, someone quiet getting on with life and others were suggested they may be so in love with themselves they get sexually abstracted to themselves, like a form of narcissism, hence this group being loud and launching into narcissistic rage?

Sorry, i dont understand at all? Are you able to clarify?

Following

Just came across this petition on Twitter to stop conflating LGB rights with trans rights. Please, please sign, whatever your sexuality!

Why don't you start a new thread for that petition Empress - I think it would get more attention?

I will try to clarify my thoughts.

It's sad the narcissistic people, have caused people to now want to drop the T.

But how is that related to hypermobility and autism?

I am trying to say there are as in all walks of life people with different personalities in a group. I am suggesting the narcissistic type have a louder voice, than those on the autistic spectrum.

I am suggesting the narcissistic type have a louder voice, than those on the autistic spectrum

Sorry howtorebuild but I don't see any necessary connection between narcissists and autists? I don't see what point you're making at all.