WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

Hermione

Re level playing field

GL was vocal about it not being a level playing field.

With a complaint that nobody else had to show a birth certificate before they could play, which meant discrimination !

Although GL appears to be less attached to "same rule for everybody" when it comes to the "2 years play max" rule. It applies to every member on the team bar GL. Who had previous play in the 80s on the mens' team not counted to ensure a full 2 years on the women's team. Cos.... Fairness !

Oh Alice, your wonderland and is looking like very small potatoes compared to certain aspects of today's reality.

Cote, I was being sarcastic by using "penised individual"!

I'm not blaming you. I just think we should not normalise the use of these phrases.

I'm just hoping the parents of the girls at these schools start to organise and protest in ways that will actually get somewhere.

In the case of the adult man "transwoman" (Coleen, I think it was?) who was using the girls' changing room at a swimming pool, and was initially allowed to keep using it so the girls were forced into another much smaller space, the parents took on the case and there was ultimately a ruling that he couldn't access their changing room given that he had a male body.

I don't know what has happened to that precedent now, but I really hope the parents here do the same and bring some kind of a class action against the authorities for this horrific breach of their daughters' human rights.

That was clear to me, CallaLiili. But I think that in general Cote has a point. We are making it harder to name the issues by playing along. It's yet another boundary they've transgressed.

Going back to the posts, I think we're on this thread, on narcissism. There is some gaslighting going on. I wish I was more articulate. I think the female friend with the unusual coloured hair speaks like a brainwashed cult member in her interview.

Someone linked to a book on another thread The gift of fear, by Gavin Becker. Gavin speaks about intuition. As has been said already, Two hundred girls have been told to stfu and turn off the intuition by the court.

We see the skater skirt and v fingers, has anyone asked these girls what they have seen personally? We heard the courts opinion, there was one Father interviewed, a male lawyer heading the case, Lila, lilas in my opinion cult female friend who is a trans activist, interviewed and the actual girls in the locker room, voices were not heard.

Was the Colleen story proved to be an urban legend? I thought I read somewhere that it wasn't actually true.

I see the trans debate like the difference between physical and political geography. Surely it's far easier to redraw frontiers on a map (ie broaden the concept of what it means to be a man or woman) than it is to proverbially move mountains, or designate a flood plain as a mountain range just because the people living there have an inner feeling identity that they are mountain goat herding pastoralists.

howtorebuild sorry if it seemed upthread that I was attributing thoughts to you that are not yours, I was just acknowledging that it was your use of the term narcissitic rage that prompted my thoughts on narcissism in general.

I think in a situation where it will be deleted otherwise, "biological male" is probably the best. Anyone reading that knows perfectly well what is meant. Transactivists hate it, for that very reason.

There are a lot of pages about Coleen, this is the one where I read she/he was ultimately banned.

It's not a problem.

I was also thinking about the scientology response, how it reminded me of an ex, some of these trans activist individuals sound like a mix of him, scientologists and some politicians using nlp, attempting upperclass seduction/salesman slow voice tactics.

I have problems articulating what I want to say, I hope someone can pick that apart and make sense.

I can't find the scientology response to Leah Remini's claims. One of her claims was about a missing woman, the wife of the leader.

Found it. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3300253/Leah-Remini-fights-tears-Katie-Holmes-left-extremist-religion-Scientology-protect-daughter-Suri.html

There seems projection going on in the response to Leah and a whole lot more. I have to say my instincts were twitching regarding projections, during Lila's interview too.

Yes, there is something very like a sociopathy going on in all of the known cases.

On the more general issue about silencing of women, I read this yesterday and it struck me as relevant:
"Generally speaking, we (men) do not believe things when they're told to us by women.
"I assume that her emotional reaction to a situation is disproportionate to my opinion of what level of emotional reaction the situation calls for."

The author's second statement rang loud bells for me, since I've recently had to leave several conversations where transwomen were insisting that oestrogen treatment made them 'so much more emotional'. My opinion - informed as a biological woman who's had quite a bit of hormone treatment - is that hormone changes alter your emotions; they don't make them stronger or weaker, or put you more or less in touch with them. That perception comes entirely from the belittling social assumption that women are irrationally enslaved by their feelings.

It goes hand in hand with the persistent falsehood of the lady brain - which, I note, the female Slate author says is "likely" a myth, disregarding the absolute flood of real evidence that it is a myth.

I really hope the girls of Hillsboro High and their parents will get together to bring a strong legal suit against the state's decision. Because that's the only way women and girls can get themselves believed :(

Yes the lack of trust in women is born out in poor healthcare, left in pain longer and misdiagnosed.

The not believing unless you see it yourself thing is widespread, invisible illness anyone?

I read a post on one of these threads gay men and how some men treat them badly and see them as female. www.itv.com/news/2015-11-04/government-has-no-plans-to-ban-gay-conversion-therapy/

gay men and how some men see them as female

Yes. Echoing a previous poster, there are men and not-men. Anyone deemed not-man is woman. So they can all share a bloody shower and basketball team, what's the problem.

Slugs
I made a point to demand bio identical oestrogen and progesterone when I started HRT as I was aware that many forms of HRT are not the same as natural oestrogen or progesterone, and some have a molecular closeness to testosterone. I've found that restoring my normal biological levels through HRT reversed many distressing physical symptoms, but I'm still waiting for my moods to be altered in any way...

We might be talking about different things, slugs. I've had a lot of different hormonal adjustments as part of an experimental study into PCOS (and am still hormonally medicated, for different reasons.) I found overall that, while the emotional effects were strong & immediate, they were neither 'more' nor 'less'. The changed responses felt 'more' due to unfamiliarity. We have coping patterns that fit our usual emotional range. It's challenging to deal with a different balance of feelings, so we can feel assaulted by them.

PMT and pregnancy are good examples; knowing we're liable to feel weepy or enraged at those times, we take it into account when deciding whether to act on our feelings. Male hormones are more stable by comparison, and there are many standard coping strategies for the aggressive urgency that can arise from steroidal hormones. Faced with a different profile due to treatment, I think they often assume this is stronger, even frightening, and go on to self-explain it in terms they've unconsciously absorbed as "like a woman" - irrational, weak, vulnerable, unreliable.

I've gone off topic. Sorry

but I do believe that we are playing into the hands of those gas lighting us with all this Newspeak by not using words according to their dictionary definitions.

Yes.

Which is probably why the creation of stringent censorship was a priority in order to strong arm people into "playing into hands". And may explain the ardent love of yelling "bigot!" and the all encompassing, ever expanding, "sky's the limit" nature of the term "transphobic".

It is quite hard to say "the Emporer's wearing no clothes" when you are censored unless you rephrase as "The regal person is differently dressed in today's new invisible fabrics". And the latter naturally lacks the clarity of the former.

So here we are. If I say what I honestly think, what I really mean, even in terms of single word, a mere pronoun, my words are at risk of censorship by deletion.

Which leaves leaves a disproportionate number of oppositional voices standing.

And false assumptions can be made about what I actually wrote when my post is now blank bar a finger wagging, but somebody below is pulling shocked faces and getting all hyperbolic about their trauma in the face of my (alleged) transphobic-issimo, suicide inducing, "hatred". So my side gets more (unjustified) mud, that sticks.

Women are being fucked over because the desire to be nice in the beginning meant the inch of a pronoun freely given was not treated with the caution it evidently deserved, given the several thousand kilometres that were subsequently taken.

Reason number eleventy squillion to dump "girls should be nice as default".

Cos once more it has demonstrated that it is a highly efficient hobbler of females.

And I don't have the sanctuary of being able to blame everybody else for the current results of that tool.

Quite a few threads ago I pranced in, all cis-woman "how very very dare you" mode. If I could go back in time and give myself a good kick up the arse I would. I actively participated in the creation of a status quo that has silenced women and girls to the extent that it is impossible for them to defend themselves against a loss of rights. Because I didn't think. I knee jerked, due to a need to be on the side claimed ng the moral high ground.

Fab legacy for a life long feminist. Not

gas lighting us with all this Newspeak

Yes, Atomik!

... aaaand ... Lila Perry is a young man who likes wearing skirts, wigs and high heels. She is a transvestite. But it is rude - even defamatory - to query the extent of a person's trans-ness. Everyone's a transsexual.

To most ears, transsexual means an individual who's gone to great and dangerous lengths in pursuit of an opposite-sexed body. A man who's undergone years of hormonal & psychological therapy and had their penis & testes removed, or a woman who's done similar, grown a full beard and had their clitoris enlarged. Such a person deserves some consideration; even concessions.

But the word also means transvestite, transgender, and even just decided to 'be' the opposite sex for a few days or hours. And we're not supposed discuss these differences, because only one word is acceptable. We're not supposed to discuss their differing impacts on people around them.

That word, itself, is rapidly going out of acceptable use. The correct term for a biological male claiming the pronoun "she" is now woman (or girl.) This term encompasses every transsexual, transgender, transvestite and just-decided male - as well as every female person. But the former deserve more consideration than the latter, because transsexuals suffer. We are not supposed to point out that many haven't suffered much at all, by comparison with biological females.

We're not even supposed to suggest that what they're suffering might be normal for girls and women. They are 'women' but deserving more empathy for the experience of womanhood than those who were born with internal gonads. The experiences of female women are now incorrect. The only woman worth listening to is one who was born with external gonads.
What a surprise.