"SettlinginNicely Tue 03-Nov-15 14:21:30
It's beyond ridiculous. In many ways the USA is much more conservative than Britain or Europe. I am surprised they aren't up in arms"
We are unfortunately silenced when something deeply offensive is foisted upon us and called 'progressive'. Look at what happened to Germaine Greer, and the opprobrium that was heaped upon her for daring to speak the truth.
To Peasepudding:
Palatine, Illinois, is not a conservative community at all by American standards or probably any other standards. Northern Illinois and the Chicago suburbs in general, and Chicago itself, tend to be liberal or even 'progressive'. Cook County (contains Chicago and and many suburbs, Palatine included) always votes Democratic. It turned the tide for JFK and is the 'political birthplace' so to speak of Barack Obama.
In American high schools students of all ages can find themselves in the same PE class. A girl of 14 has a very good chance of finding herself sharing a locker room with girls of 15, 16, 17 and even 18. Actually she would have less of a chance of sharing it with 15 year olds as they tend to be the ones doing Drivers Ed, in order to pass driving in school PE class and get their licence when they turn 16. So at age 18 a transgirl could be sharing a changing room and showers with girls aged 14.
The boys' locker room is the appropriate place for someone with a penis and functioning testes. If that is not a congenial environment for someone with a penis, etc., then the people whose behaviour and conception of themselves needs to change are the boys.
This is anecdotal, but my DS and DDs attended a public high school in another Cook County suburb. The idea that the boys' locker rooms would be hostile places for someone Lila doesn't ring true. There were and are many openly gay students and staff in my local school, many openly gay parents. The claim of hostility towards a student in transition (which is not mentioned) rings hollow, from my own personal observation of life in an American HS in an area that is liberal/progressive and middle class
And the claim that boys are socialised to look and be aggressive about that rings sort of hollow too. Nobody wears a school uniform, nobody expects girls to cover themselves any more than weather conditions warrant. There are dress codes in most suburban Chicago high schools that feature bans on offensive slogans on clothing, no dirty or torn clothing, no underwear worn as clothing. But in reality, boys and girls alike wear clothes that reveal their underwear - boys wearing low slung jeans and sweatpants and shorts and girls wearing high cut tops, tops with spaghetti straps, etc. So you can look but the idea that a girl is fair game because of the way she looks is not one that schools or communities condone at all.
This doesn't mean that a transgirl wouldn't cause upset and distress in a girls' locker room, however. Many girls at first experience a bit of discomfort peeling off everything even in front of other girls, dealing with menstrual issues in showers, dealing with the issues raised by the body shape problem, etc. They learn to get on with it and accept each other. The presence of a male would add another layer to the difficulties. Why should the girls have to accept someone who is actually completely male into their space where they have worked to establish their own co-existence and where they have their own community based on their own female sensitivities? This is not about m-f modesty, though modesty comes into it, and imo rightly so. It is about a female space and a female community being invaded. You have only to look at the debate about manspreading on public transport to understand what women and girls are angry about, not to mention concerns about ogling, about groping, and about sexual harassment.
It is not a 'tough one'. If the atmosphere and attitudes in the boys' locker room are causing problems for someone with a penis then it is the boys who have to change and re-examine their behaviour and thoughts. The great thing about high schools in middle class liberal America is that this can be done.
And another anecdote -- it is very difficult for anyone to use the loo in my DCs' high school as passing periods between classes are just over four minutes long and being tardy has consequences. The whinging from a teenage boy that he finds it difficult to use the toilets makes me throw up a little in my mouth. One of my DDs got an infection from holding it in, because her schedule meant traversing the length and all four floors of the school constantly one semester.
Another fact about American high schools -- you can't leave. If you live in a school district then you go to the public school in that district. The only way to leave is to move to another district or pay through the nose to go to a private school, assuming there is one available, which is rarely the case apart from major urban and suburban areas. So students in a district that has a transactivist foisted upon the girls are trapped.
This entire situation can be summed up in the phrase 'shutup bitch and make me a sandwich'.