WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

[KKCupCakes]

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

cis men have cis privilege that trans men do not.

Men have privilege and women do not acquire it.

Robertdecoywoman firstly, it's mainly an American forum, so bear in mind there are different cultural elements.
They are concerned with the effects on 'gay' children and on gay culture generally. They feel their platform or movement is being taken over by trans activists to their detriment. They also feel women's rights are in danger as well.
It is a slightly different angle and obviously nothing on the internet should ever be taken as the gospel truth. It's just interesting to read around the subject.

Not quite Annfwyn, Jim Crow laws which stemmed from white supremacists ideology are nothing like gender critical feminism and as a black woman I find your analogy particularly offensive.

Gender like race is a social construct which has been used justify the rape, murder and subjugation. The idea that you would use another damaging social construct (race) to justify reinforcing damaging social construct (gender) is spectacularly wrong headed.

bubsandmoo I appreciate your kind tone. However, I really haven't called names, and I am reasonably well read. I just disagree on some points about how it is best to deal with trans women. I think it's generally best to accept that they are women unless there's compelling evidence that an individual is abusing that acceptance, and I don't think it's necessary to ban the term "cisgender" because it's useful shorthand. I also think that being trans offers a disadvantage in some situations.

I think it's generally best to accept that they are women unless there's compelling evidence that an individual is abusing that acceptance

How would that work?

Can you please expand the arguments you read about trans activists damaging gay children?

But to me the meaning of "cis" woman is predicated on accepting that their is some inner woman or man. That is what I reject.

I have no real inner concept of me as a woman. It is others who treat me as one really and who may bring with that a raft of stereotypical expectations. Some of those regarding appearance and social behaviour I appear to accept because in personality I don't wish to draw attention to myself.

I do though hate being told what I think or who I am by people judging the outer details of my life.

Robots in the US, half of women and one tenth of men. I'm not able to find a UK study.

Yes Joan and then those crimes will be recorded as "female" crimes and then people will use distorted stats to prove that women have as much to fear from fellow "women" as they have from men. 1984 here we come

Not all attention is good attention and personally Im sick to the back bloody teeth of this issue.

CactusAnnie I didn't actually say that. I said that female on female assault is common. People of both genders are most likely to be assaulted by men.

I don't believe that there is enough evidence to judge that either a trans woman or a cis woman is significantly more likely to assault a woman. Where evidence is lacking, I am not comfortable with enforcing assumed biases.

I'm interested, though - where do you stand on trans men and gay women in female spaces?

I've just been reading a case from 2009 where a man who identified as female won the right to be transferred to a women's prison. Preventing him from living as a woman in a women's prison was ruled to be a breach of his human rights because it meant he couldn't qualify for gender reassignment surgery. His conviction was for manslaughter and attempted rape. How fucked up is it that it's acceptable for female prisoners to be locked up with a male rapist.

Do we have terms for the privilege of living without cancer?
The privilege of not having asthma?
The privilege of not having diabetes?
The privilege of never having been depressed?
The privilege of not ever having been pressured to have sex?
The privilege of having had loving parents?
The privilege of living in a home free from addiction?
The privilege of never having gone to bed hungry?
The privilege of never having been a victim of crime?
The privilege of never having suffered bereavement?
The privilege of never having been infertile?

Weird, isn't it, how in general we manage to accept that there are differences in and between human experiences but women have 'cis privilege' because they will never be beaten up for saying they used to be described with a different personal pronoun.

As if you have an issue and another person doesn't share it, that means they need to have a special label for their 'privilege' and stasting any differences between groups is 'phobic'.

It is insanely stupid, in fairness.

I'm interested, though - where do you stand on trans men and gay women in female spaces?

I've no problem with either group.

I don't believe that there is enough evidence to judge that either a trans woman or a cis woman is significantly more likely to assault a woman. Where evidence is lacking, I am not comfortable with enforcing assumed biases.

There is evidence that their criminality is the same as men.

abbieanders that Swedish study showed that trans men ARE more likely to commit violent crimes. So is it literally just about being born with a penis, or is it about what that might be related to?

fusion able privilege, healthy privilege, mental health privilege, fertility privilege. All terms I've seen in use. Cis as a term just took off because there wasn't an obvious single word to describe the state of identifying as the same gender as you were assigned at birth, so cisgender was a useful word. It is just a way of describing an aspect of the human experience.

So is it literally just about being born with a penis, or is it about what that might be related to?

I honestly don't know how many more times it would need to be said. Plus, you're not Columbo, this disingenuous line of questioning might be cute if you weren't asking questions that have been answered at least forty times.

Cis as a term just took off because there wasn't an obvious single word to describe the state of identifying as the same gender as you were assigned at birth

Took off with whom? Who asked "cis" women whether they were happy to suddenly stop being called women and start being called "cis women"?

Doesn't matter how many times we keep saying we find Cis offensive as you will keep using it, eh?

Slave owners used to have terminology based on the shade of their slaves skin. A lot of the derogatory names for black people originate from this.

Cis is just a simple way for people who don't really like women to categorise us.