to think if you have a penis, you do not belong in a woman's prison

[RickRoll]

There is to be an appeal tomorrow, at Bristol Crown Court, regarding the decision to send violent criminal Tara Hudson, who works as a transsexual prostitute (still has a penis, as 80% of transsexuals do), to male prison. Tara wants to go to a female prison.

AIBU to think that if you have a penis, you should go to male prison?

People are arguing that Tara is at risk of sexual assault, but Tara is not unique in this - lots of (non transgender) men are vulnerable, and the prison service has a responsibility to protect them.

Great post Blackbirds

Create a unique word for you then and stop making society choose. Stop bashing the norms. I do want to understand but "trans" has become so open ended that its ridiculous.

"Bertrand, if I were in prison, I would have no problem sharing a cell with Tara."

That wasn't my question. Should an inmate be forced to share a cell with her?

So if this person were to be placed in a women's prison, should the women there be able to refuse to share a cell with them?

Cross posted with you Bertrand!

gate but the difference is that many of us have been trans allies. I wish trans people no ill will. I want them to live happy, peaceful lives.

But I'm not prepared to say that anyone who "feels like a woman" is exactly what a woman is regardless of biological reality. Women end up suffering as a result of that doctrine, and I'm not prepared to sacrifice women's and girls rights to make a subset of a subset of men feel better.

But gatewalker black and white people have always been black or white, being transgender is a relatively new concept in the history of humanity.

Is it not possible to have a third, fourth, fifth gender description - maybe it is our narrow view on gender identification that is causing this issue. Is it possible when there is a recognised gender of 'transwomen' it will be easier for the trans community to own their own problems and struggles which obviously occur and must be difficult - and not try to wipe out the history, issues and identity of born women.

Oh dear - or what Blackbirds said but in like, a way more intellectual manner.

slugs how would you define make and female if not with reference to their biology.

Or are we now going to pretend that the overwhelming majority of the world doesn't make that distinction and those born with vaginas suffer horrifically (or are never born as they're selectively aborted) as a result of those
Differences?

You are erasing the experience of billions of women on this planet when you say that what's in someone's pants doesn't define their sex.

They are not women though so to want to be called such due women being more "accepting" isnt the answer.

I'm not prepared to sacrifice women's and girls rights to make a subset of a subset of men feel better

And reports of Ms Hudson's violent behaviour suggest that she exercises an extreme degree of masculine privilege & entitlement.

Yanbu

h dear - or what Blackbirds said but in like, a way more intellectual manner

I think "oh dear" is absolutely appropriate in this situation. It's messy & difficult. I'm glad I"m not responsible for having to sort it out. Oh dear indeed

Exactly Hermione.

I have nothing against people who wish to transition. I am unclear on whether it would always be necessary if we dismantled our hyper gendered society . But I respect the right of the individual to find happiness and peace the best way they can.

I don't think that means you get to trample the right of women not be imprisoned with someone biologically male and with a functioning penis that they like to use.

Unless he has had full gender reassignment surgery, he is still a man.

Personally as a woman I understand a transgenders difficulties but I dont accept them as women unless the penis gets chopped off. Then I will take them seriously. If that is difficult then I would accept them if their sexual orientation was for men.

If they had a penis and still wanted to use that in male way when it suited them then no, you are still a man!

I don't know Blackbirds I would love to have an idea on how to sort it out if only for the sake of my dds not having to grow up dominated by men and transwomen. Who will? Not a man, or a woman - a group of currently highly socially protected trans-people? That can't happen.

It crossed my mind to worry today that the Lord Davies possible future quota for CEO's of FTSE 100+ will be partially filled with transwomen.

These threads are reminding me of when I was a docent at a museum with a large collection of Lakota/Dakota Native American artefacts. We were given a lot of lectures about their history and culture so that we could properly guide tours and answer questions.

The North American Plains Indians, had an interesting concept of a third sex. The white settlers called these people "berdache." They were men who started dressing as women around puberty and did women's work. They married men. They had a special spiritual role within tribe. Basically, they were a "third sex" and had social/cultural role within the tribe that everyone accepted and appreciated.

Wonder if our society could ever get there.

Here is a link, better than my very old memories, I am sure!
plainshumanities.unl.edu/encyclopedia/doc/egp.gen.004

Gatewalker-if you're still here I'd really like an answer to my question.

yanbu

a trans women penis or no penis is a trans women not a women. my concern is that everyone is safe not all women will feel safe around a trans woman that is just the way it is and I do not think women should have to accommodate

and its seems that many trans women though I understand have been through their own difficulties still carry male privilege as far too many are expecting women to put up and shut up because they are telling them they know what it is like to be a woman