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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU? Why can't people think before they speak? A gender rant.

127 replies

babarthefuckingelephant · 27/10/2015 21:45

My son is 2. He's obsessed with trains, cars, trucks, diggers and running at the speed of light into things, climbing trees, you know the usual.
He is also just as obsessed with glitter, dancing, swirling, singing, sparkly, pretty, colourful, dolls, literally just as much as the usual boy stuff. Nothing has ever been particularly encouraged one way or the other, he has never been pushed towards cars or glitter, and some days he favours one or the other. But he does what he likes and he likes what he does. (Which usually brings meltdowns when getting dressed in the morning if an outfit isn't colourful enough).

He's been wearing a purple tuelle tutu skirt for the last two days. Literally every waking moment. He was dressed for bed last night and then undressed himself and went and put the tutu back on. He wanted to wear it again today.
He put it on with some grey leggings underneath (that had nuts and bolts on), a t shirt, some chelsea boots and a navy blue wooly hoodie.
Nursery are great with this stuff so no problems there. We got to playgroup afterwards and comments from everybody there were like "Oh whats her name?" and when I told them and said He's 2, they would say "Oh, well good for him, I just assumed because of the girls skirt that it was a girl" (He otherwise looks like a boy, short hair ect), "You do whatever you want theres nothing wrong with wearing a girls skirt", that kind of thing, generally making quite a big deal of it.

Afterwards we went to the farm with his friend, Where there were more comments asking what her name was (I know an easy mistake and not what got to me in the slightest) but the reaction when I said "He is ..."
One woman even looked at him and said "Oh, well your little friend and your little sister, you're surrounded by girls is that why you're wearing girls clothes?" and another woman saying "You wear that girls skirt, my son liked things like that but everyone skitted at him"

I mean I know people are just rude sometimes but why make a huge point of it being girls? Why can't people just say "oh thats a nice skirt" or say nothing at all? His friend is the same age and a girl, and I'm pretty sure had she been wearing it nobody would have said "oh what a lovely girls skirt you have on"
It made me feel so cruel for letting him go out with it on, but what message is it giving to society by telling him not to? Ive never looked at a young girl with a football shirt on and said "what a lovely boys shirt you're wearing".

Why is it such an atrocity in this day and age to comment on anything at all that a woman or girl shouldn't do or have, but boys are just as equally stereotyped from infancy about what they can and can't do or like. Why can't people just smile or look the other way? Why does it have to be such a big thing. And now I've ranted on AIBU like it is a big thing but I just don't know why people have to put outdated ideas into tiny heads like that?

OP posts:
Narp · 28/10/2015 15:30

I think you've not helped yourself by using words like 'atrocity' in your OP, when nobody behaved as if it was an atrocity.

But I do get where you are coming from

babarthefuckingelephant · 28/10/2015 22:15

Thanks for all the replies.. I was being a bit of a knob wasn't I. I know nobody was being rude I just diddnt really get the notion to bring gender into each and every remark, but the comments on here about that being most peoples natural reaction has made me wonder why I cared.

For those saying I shouldn't let him go out like that, I must be so happy that he picked it, I knew it was attention grabbing, I totally see where you are coming from if he was an older child but he's 2 and I think that makes things a bit different. He's still exploring the world and figuring out what he likes and doesn't and I don't think it is attention grabbing at 2 years old to wear a bit of net around your leggings as it would be as a 5 or 10 year old lad. I think its more the item than anything else, its something new to him, its a different texture and sticks out in a different way. I think no matter what colour it had been he would have quite happily worn it. It could have been blue or black I think he would still be interested in it, and in my book I let him go out that day with his favourite thing that day feeling happy. He was appropriately dressed for a farm in all other ways and its a childhood phase of exploration in my opinion. I don't see it as anything to do with his gender or sexual orientation or preference or anything like that. Its just something he likes that day. In the same way that at the weekend he went everywhere carrying his swimming goggles. Not actually wearing them but just carrying them. Funnily enough he woke in the night last night and he usually wakes looking for his comforter, but last night he woke saying "weres princess dress" wanting to snuggle up to it. But my point is that all i see it as is a sensory thing that is something he enjoys for now. I just don't understand why he has to be told, "its for girls but its ok", why not just "its ok" or nothing at all.

OP posts:
AbbyCadabra · 28/10/2015 22:25

I know I didn't agree with you most of the time but it provoked an interesting discussion. I think we are socially conditioned to a degree, I know if I saw a small child with hair in bunches and ribbons I would automatically assume it was a girl, so there you go. If I see a child in a tutu in future I will try to amend my thinking!

Garlick · 29/10/2015 02:17

:) What a nice answer, Abby.

IrishDad79 · 29/10/2015 03:08

My ds is 5 now. I'm going to be incredibly politically incorrect here but this is my personal opinion: I would be absolutely disgusted and sickened if I found out my dw had let him wear a purple fucking tutu in public. He liked playing with dolls and kitchen sets as a toddler, which I didn't have a problem with, but wearing tutus is where I draw the line. I guess I'm not "right-on" enough.

AlwaysHope1 · 29/10/2015 04:15

Think you are a bit deluded if you really can't understand why a tutu is a girls item of clothing?

BertrandRussell · 29/10/2015 05:17

"Im just irrationally pissed of by the justifications when girls are told they can do and be anything"

Well, so long as "anything" means a princess, a ballerina or a fairy. Or certain animals. Butterflies or rabbits. Possibly cats. Dogs, tigers, lions and dinosaurs are for boys.

VashtaNerada · 29/10/2015 07:23

"Disgusted and sickened" Irish?? Shock

Roussette · 29/10/2015 07:47

Totally OTT to be disgusted and sickened IrishDad ! I'm not always 'right on' either but that reaction is not on.

OP, well done for realising you were taking it all far too seriously, those Mums were just trying to say the right thing I think. Just one other point though... as much as it's nice to let kids explore and find their way it doesn't always work like that and they do need guidance and firm boundaries and "No". My DD would have been a nightmare without that. Like the time she was trying to grab and eat raw pork off the chopping board whilst I was preparing a meal and then having the longest tantrum known to man, it's in the Guinness Book of Records!

Sometimes they just can't wear what they want for practicality reasons.

MrsJayy · 29/10/2015 07:56

Where are folk buying these tutus mumsnet boy toddlers are alwaysin a tutu anyway op your little boy was wearing askirt you obviously bought him and let him wear so you are going to have to deal with comments. Little girls with huge bows are slated and the parents laughed at on here by some.

IrishDad79 · 29/10/2015 08:10

I know it's strong language but I would genuinely be sick to my stomach if I found out my young lad was let out wearing a fucking tutu (or any skirt for that matter). I know it probably goes against article 43.6a of the Guardian Reader's Guide to being a hip and cool parent but so be it.

MrsJayy · 29/10/2015 08:13

Sick to your stomach jeezo its a tutu fgs what is wrong with you to be repulsed by a toddler dressing up,

ShamelessBreadAddict · 29/10/2015 08:20

I think YABU a little tbh. I agree with the pp who said they were probably just making small talk and certainly didn't mean any harm or particularly care. I've seen people say some terribly hurtful, rude and ignorant stuff online to parents of boys who choose to wear a skirt / dress and even Shock asking Santa for a play kitchen. That's what I was expecting when I opened your thread and I was setting my face to outraged for you in advance! Grin

But what you have said these people said to you wouldn't have bothered me. Agree with Dick. Who cares? Most people don't give a shit what your DC wears.

Roussette · 29/10/2015 08:25

Oh don't be daft IrishDad. There are far worse things to be worried about. What would you do if your DS came out as gay in 10 years time?

Believe me, I am not a right on Guardian reader blah blah, but your reaction is ridiculous.

MrsJayy · 29/10/2015 08:30

Im not right on either but come on sick to your stomach really!

allnewredfairy · 29/10/2015 08:49

If Irishdad is an Irish dad I know many men Irish or otherwise that would have this reaction. Just because you don't like someone's reactions doesn't make them valid to them.

Leavingsosoon · 29/10/2015 08:52

I don't have such a strong reaction as IrishDad but I certainly would never in a million years have let my son wear a tutu in public.

I think they are supposed to wear tutus with wellies.

Apparently.

MrsJayy · 29/10/2015 09:05

Not liking something or agreeing is different to saying sick to my stomach though its like saying a small child is repulsive. My dad said to me that i would turn dd because she got cars and a play mat 20odd years ago and girls should not play with boys toys its a ridiculous notion and an complete over reaction.

Leavingsosoon · 29/10/2015 09:14

No, it isn't saying a small child is repulsive at all.

I have a very strong reaction to boys in girls' clothes (I mean frilly dresses and the like, not jeans or similar) and I don't know why; I generally stay off these threads because they do make me feel a bit weird - but I was interested in this when IrishDad verbalised some of my feelings.

VashtaNerada · 29/10/2015 09:27

Christ, anyone that bothered by someone dressing a non-conventional way really needs to get to the route of why it's so upsetting to them. That is not a normal reaction, not at all.
FWIW DS (3) attended a ballet class at Center Parcs where all children were encouraged to wear tutus, fairy wings and tiaras. It was a bit of fun and he looked adorable! If someone had said the sight of him dressed like that made them feel sick I would be really quite worried about that person's state of mind.

Floggingmolly · 29/10/2015 11:27

There have been boys in all of my dd's ballet classes for the past 10+ years, but on no occasion has a boy been dressed in a tutu. Ever. It really isn't usual, however desperate some people may be to normalise it.
Not saying it's not normal, but it's really not the norm.
I think op just wanted a bit of argy bargy starting this thread, tbh; because she really didn't have a negative reaction at all.
Which seems to have pissed her off massively...

PoundingTheStreets · 29/10/2015 11:36

I had cross-gender dressing DC. IT was noticeable how much their attitudes changed once they went to school and peer-pressure (and comments from adults) came into force. I never lost sleep about it, but I wonder if the rise in gender-reassignment cases affecting children has come about because we are inadvertently teaching our children that if they want to wear tutus and nail varnish that must mean that they want to be a girl, because only girls wear tutus and nail varnish, etc.

I am NOT trying to air an agenda on transgender issues, but if we lived in a world where the only differences between men and women were purely biological rather than cultural, would the feeling of being a male in a female body or vice versa exist in such numbers?

EnaSharplesHairnet · 29/10/2015 12:11

Pounding, my thoughts have been similar.

larrygrylls · 29/10/2015 12:16

'I am NOT trying to air an agenda on transgender issues, but if we lived in a world where the only differences between men and women were purely biological rather than cultural, would the feeling of being a male in a female body or vice versa exist in such numbers?'

There are so many assumptions built into that statement, it is hard to know where to start. Do you not believe in ANY overlap between 'culture' and biology? All (well there might be some bizarre tribe with about 20 members where this is not true) cultures mark sexual dimorphism by adopting gendered behaviours, even though the behaviours may vary from culture to culture. The point is that the majority of people want to accentuate their sexual morphology by dressing and behaving in certain ways. That does not mean that there are not exceptions to that rule or that all people should not be taken as individuals.

Your post is confusing cause and effect. I have no idea what it is like to be transgender. However I assume that they wear female (or male) clothes to accentuate an internal feeling, rather than feeling 'like a girl' BECAUSE they like sparkly clothes. Of course, it might be worth actually asking them!

EnaSharplesHairnet · 29/10/2015 12:46

I would observe that there was a swing away from the boys wear shorts but girls wear dresses of my mum's wartime childhood through to my own where styles (and a lot of toys for kids) became broadly more unisex in the 70s to a pinkification and the princess / action hero mania I see today.

For me it was becoming normal to give kids a wider range of options in everything. And freedom from being mini-adults.

Now it feels as if it is taken as read that "the majority of people want to accentuate their sexual morphology.." I find that a bit surprising if I'm honest. Most people I know don't seem that bothered, particularly once they are past the clubbing years!

Gran always wore skirts because it was done. My Mum took to wearing trousers once it became the norm in her age group and loved the practicality. I never had to go through the faff of skirts except for school and a couple of years of an antiquated office dress code.

I also (lightheartedly!) blame Gok Wan for insisting women will feel better once they are more "feminine" looking, he was forever getting women back into skirts and wrap dresses and insisting they were the better for it!

Sorry for the derail Op. Just feeling confused that if I am not to be in a minority I maybe ought to be out there dressing like a proper woman!