To think 'in your face Osborne?'

[Littlefluffyclouds81]

I'm not. I know I'm not. I'm personally going to have a glass of wine and celebrate there being a significant amount of egg on the Tories' faces.

She lives on an island and fends for herself

High society, maybe

Elizabeth whatever happens my husband will always step up and be a good father supporting his children. I have no concerns about thier future.

My victoria values may be wrong in your eyes but people have to take responsibilities for themselves not rely on the state.

Merrymouse the point is both parents should be supporting their children. There are too many absent parents. I appreciate this can sometimes not be helped but where possible if both parents contributed to the raising of children single parents could rely less on government support.

Children could beg or go up chimneys like they did in Victorian times because life was just grand back then

Then maybe the government should spend more time ensuring that the CSA is effective then?

£3.75 is ok for a phone bill much like mine. That point was in relation to a previous post where the person was spending £50.

It wouldn't matter what I say to justify my view point you have all made your decision on me. I am sure it won't suprised you to know I am a conservative voter and peoud of it. I welcome any reforms that are made to the benefits system.

People for too long, which in my opinion started many years ago under a labour government, have been allowed to withdraw from personal responsibility and have felt that society owes them a life and we should all support them.

Before the welfare state life was so much better, no absent parents back then,we all pulled our weight

Mobile phones are a luxury Methemummy. . How do you work that one out. What about JSA claimants looking for work. How are potential employers supposed to contact them. Don't use the email chestnut because if you think s mobile phone is s luxury. Heaven knows what you'd make of internet access.
I think you need to come out of your medieval bubble and try entering the 21st century. In case your unaware we're living in the year 2015 not 1520.

You're unware. Not your unware

Hang on though, before we get over-excited, it's not really a victory is it?! The cuts have just been delayed, and in effect, by not voting for the fatal ammendment, the lords have basically agreed in principle to the cuts. All they're doing is delaying them a bit, but new claimants, those on Universal credit etc, will still bear the brunt.

And don't start me on Labour being all triumphant about killing the cuts - they bloody abstained on the ammendment that would have stopped them! They've basically sold us all out so they could claim a "victory", rather than support a lib dem motion!

So your household income is actually 74k? Nothing near to 50k really then and half a world away from 35k. Feel free to share your housekeeping tips. Perhaps a recipe for stone soup that you know

It has been quite an odd experience bringing my DS up as a lone parent, working part-time, and yet with more disposable income than families with two full time working parents in professional jobs.

I do feel very lucky to live somewhere that has such a generous system where I can have such a good income from only working part-time and can see why the Gov want to make cuts as it will obviously save them a fortune - but in order to have my £1,500 a month income as salary, I'd need to earn at least £10 per hour (or £17 per hour working part-time).

It is only when a higher rate of pay is in force that TC can be reduced - surely they must see that?

Someone with a household income of 64k telling people their mobile phones are luxuries, really?

They aren't, they are needed, how do employers contact Candidates? If there was an emergency at school how would the school contact the parents if they weren't at home?

Plenty of women think their husbands will step up and carry on doing the right thing, many of them are left surprised...

Stopping the cuts means that businesses continue to save on the wage bill
So we could say that the lords are acting in the interest of business owners
Presumably some of them are business owners?

Victorian values are all very well if you want to walk the streets with the Artful Dodger, Fagin and Jack the Ripper, but I'd rather take responsibility for a child when they can be supported and educated than suffer the consequences later.

But all that is beside the point when tax credits aren't only needed by the 'feckless' poor and single parents. Whether one parent stays at home or both parents work and pay for child care, many jobs do not pay a wage that would enable a small family to live where their labour is required, and many of those salaries are set by the government.

Presumably you would rather pay higher taxes so that key workers receive higher wages? Either way it is clear that the economy does not currently efficiently distribute wealth. Tax credits may not work well, but the government aren't offering any alternative and seem to have every intent of making working conditions worse for e.g. the health workers they employ.

I don't rely on tax credits and I'm not a health worker or a teacher, but I do rely on their services.

What exactly is the long game?

whatever happens my husband will always step up and be a good father supporting his children.

Unless one day he decides not to. I have a friend who thought that of her husband but after they split up the support gradually dwindled. Now he's living in a nice house with the OW, enjoying his higher rate salary, while she has to watch every penny and fight with him to contribute towards necessities like school shoes. And in terms of parenting support, he has them one afternoon a month, if that.

The £50 a month quoted was for two mobile phones and the internet, lumped under one headed 'phone'.

I am taking responsibility for myself. I have a full time job (for which I definitely need Internet access at home, should there be any doubt). You, on the other hand, rely on your husband, and he on you. That is a great situation, and one for which you should be grateful. I'm not the one falling short here- shout at my ex, if you want, although I doubt he can hear you from where he is. Victorian society condemned and ostracised women for ending up in unstable or unsupported family situations- Are these the values that you wish to uphold? Why?
Suggesting that the non-res parent should be held to their responsibilities is an entirely different point. What exactly have the government done about that? What am I supposed to do about it? I'm entirely with you, if you are suggesting that the Tories direct some of their energy into sorting out that mess.

Methemummy, are you so lacking in imagination that you can't just for a minute think how other people live and struggle?

You earn, I think you said £14,000, and your Dh earns £60,000?
Now, you say your husband would always support you, no matter what, and that is fantastic. But please can you try to imagine what it must be llke for others who aren't as fortune.

Your posts depress me, they really do.

I agree with you And. Just because it's been delayed does not mean in any way that it's been ruled out. Not only that but yes Tax credits may not be effected and quite right too, Why should hard working people earning a pittance suffer. But pittencd being the very key word here. If employers were forced to pay their workers a living wage. We wouldn't be having this conversation, and nor would the government, because Tax credits wouldn't exist. They wouldn't need to. It gets me so fucking, but that's probably for another thread.
The axe however will fall somewhere .and it will probably infact be the most vulnerable.

Either way it is clear that the economy does not currently efficiently distribute wealth
This!

No idea what the long game is

fortunate

Methemummy Yes. We all think the DCs' dad will step up and support them. Inevitably what happens when a marriage breaks down is that the dad sees that money going to his ex not his kids and so pays the bare minimum based on salary calculations.

Self employed exes fiddle their figures, over-working exes cut their hours stating there's no point working to just give it all 'to her' and then they meet someone new and move in with her and any DCs in that household, whether or not they are biologically his, reduce his liability further.

His ex meets someone new who can't possibly be expected to support someone else's DCs (although meanwhile his contribution to his own DCs reduces as he's living with other DCs) and so the system is set up to ensure that men can get away with paying the bare minimum, all the while believing that TCs will pick up the slack.

In reality, TCs do not take into account whether or not he contributes to his own DCs' upbringing.

Let's hope you're right and that your H is one of the minority of absent fathers willing and happy to equally support his DCs if you split up.
I'd like to say I hope it never happens to you, but actually....

Would it be ok to gently point out that not all business owners pay low wages and treat their staff badly? I accept many may do, but there are some that don't!

It's rather the point isn't it? Govt needs to ensure that folk receive a fair wage (god knows how), then, or at least in tandem with, reducing TC.

As i said on the other thread if george osbournes new minimum wage increase is so good then people will naturally not need Tax credits anymore.
He needs to not cut it and let it naturally happen with the wage increase. The cut is too vicious and violent.

I don't think we've heard the end of this by any means. Those mendacious Devils will find a way to bring this about.