Most people are clueless about protein or calcium needed

[Floflomo]

I follow a vegan diet and the amount of people that go on about protein or calcium is ridiculous and just shows they are totally clueless.

The RDA for protein isn't that big at all, many veg contains protein so before even getting onto to nuts, seeds and pulses I've had half of the RDA just from veg.

Calcium is in way more foods than just dairy, I had figs in porridge for breakfast made with almond milk. For lunch I'm having a salad with lots of leafy greens with a dressing made from tahini, so I'm doing just great with calum and getting it from a variety of sources.

vegan diet is incompatible with life unless supplemented or fortified. Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it but that's the facts.

Strange (and ironic) wording and perspective. Fortified foods and supplements aren't the preserve of vegans. What about meat eaters who e.g. suffer from anaemia, or have a Vitamin D deficiency? What about the folic acid recommendation for all pregnant women?

Your post implies that a vegan diet is somehow less adequate than a diet that includes meat. Do you think that vegans place a disproportionate burden on the NHS for nutritional and lifestyle related issues?

fascicle You are correct, many omnis also consume fortified food/supplements etc - but they don't need to - everything needed to sustain life is available naturally in an omni or a veggie diet.

This is not the case in a vegan diet where the only source if B12 is via fortified foods or supplements.

Providing that a vegan does supplement their diet appropriately, it is at least as healthy as a veggie/omni diet.

knew that would prompt chucking toys out of the pram.

it's science. True whether you like it or not.

B12 is essential for human existence and is not available from vegetable sources. So either eat a bit of shit (literally) on the veg or supplement. Either fine with me. Personally I prefer not to have to do either.

the folic acid analogy is also cobblers. Babies are born healthy without it. But because we like to maximise their chances rather than doing what we used to do, we supplement.

I didn't say vegan was less adequate. You read that because that's what ALWAYS happens. Perhaps a poor diet is affecting your English comprehension?

"Your post implies that a vegan diet is somehow less adequate than a diet that includes meat"

I think the point was that a vegan diet is not adequate whereas a varied and balanced diet that includes all major food groups for omnivore humans is.

You would think that we would not be having this conversation years after Gwyneth Paltrow managed to give herself pre-osteoporosis at the grand old age of 38, but some people just don't want to learn.

Oh yes fascicle really kicked off there. It got completely out of hand she acted so outrageously.

I think the point was that a vegan diet is not adequate whereas a varied and balanced diet that includes all major food groups for omnivore humans is.

A vegan diet is perfectly adequate for most people.

Gwyneths diet was not adequate. Saying that becuase she got osteo because she was vegan is like saying those malnourished kids in the ads on TV are malnourished becuase they are omni.

In news articles at the time she noted that her vitamin D levels were extremely low - this is nothing to do with veganism - most people in the UK have very low vitamin D levels, but most people in the UK are not vegan...

"Gwyneths diet was not adequate"

Great, we agree. Her diet was inadequate and it was vegan. She was very dedicated and, by all accounts, tried very hard to nourish her body in the best possible way. And yet she failed. Why, do you think?

Well, from the little I have read it sounds like she should have been supplementing with vitD, as we all should.

In news articles at the time she noted that her vitamin D levels were extremely low - this is nothing to do with veganism - most people in the UK have very low vitamin D levels, but most people in the UK are not vegan...

Yet most people in the UK don't develop (pre) osteoporosis at the age of 38...

A vegan diet is perfectly adequate for most people.

Not without supplementing your diet it isn't.

Veganism is not compatible with life.

And another way of looking at it is that plants are also living beings, and we have no idea whether or not they suffer when we eat them (we only know they have very different physiology and anatomy from us, but that does not rule out that they suffer). So perhaps we should all eat stones.

Somehow I doubt plants feel pain. They don't have nerves. They don't have pain receptors. They don't have a brain.

Logically, how would it be even possible for them to feel pain?

Funny you should ask. They don't have a nervous system, but they do have electrical and chemical signalling systems, and they even produce neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, and glutamate. Leaves respond to their environment and signal each other: "Since the early nineteen-eighties, it has been known that when a plant’s leaves are infected or chewed by insects they emit volatile chemicals that signal other leaves to mount a defense. Sometimes this warning signal contains information about the identity of the insect, gleaned from the taste of its saliva. Depending on the plant and the attacker, the defense might involve altering the leaf’s flavor or texture, or producing toxins or other compounds that render the plant’s flesh less digestible to herbivores." (from the link above).

Responding to their environment is a far cry from actually being able to feel pain. If plants didn't respond to their environment they would have a pretty hard time surviving.

If they don't have a nervous system then they can't feel pain imo.

Even if they are capable of feeling pain (which I find unlikely) I still find myself feeling a bit "meh" about it. I accept that in order for me to live then something will have to die, whether that's a plant or an animal. I'm totally okay with that.

Diets high in animal protein and fat have heightened the risk of heart disease, certain cancers and other conditions. Fact.

While I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, I do not eat a lot of red meat and at least 3 days per week of meat-free eating.

Not all vegans and vegetarians are healthy, but a large proportion of meat eaters, who also eat a lot of sugar laden; highly processed foods, are heading toward acquiring major illnesses.

Well, I'm a bit meh about all of it, which is why I have no problem eating all sorts of fish and meat.

The point is that we have to kill and eat live beings in order to live. What is the moral criteria for eating some but not others? Plants seem to have basic intelligence and survival skills. The line in the sand seems arbitrary.

Not all vegans and vegetarians are healthy, but a large proportion of meat eaters, who also eat a lot of sugar laden; highly processed foods, are heading toward acquiring major illnesses.

Plenty of vegans and vegetarians eat a lot of sugar laden and highly processed foods. Why is it just the meat eaters who do who are heading towards major illnesses?

Looks like most are ignorant about b12 also!

I eat a lot of organic, wild and home grown food and no b12 vitamins or meat or dairy and my b12 levels have never been low.

Its just the meat industry brainwashing everyone, they have a lot of power. There is lots of evidence that dairy leaches calcium. The countries with the highest dairy intake also have the highest osteoporosis.

Its just the meat industry brainwashing everyone

Reading this thread is also making me crave a steak.

Pretty much any discussion on vegetarianism and veganism makes me crave meat for some reason .

"my b12 levels have never been low."

Really? How often do you check your B12 levels?

"Its just the meat industry brainwashing everyone"

Of course it is

"There is lots of evidence that dairy leaches calcium"

That would be why children who avoid drinking milk have low dietary calcium and poor bone health.

Do you have children? When DD reached puberty, her paediatrician told us that a significant portion of calcium in bones is laid down during the two years of puberty and that she should load up on as much milk and dairy products as we can get into her.

Instead, we trusted vegans who have not had a single day in medical school. Not.

"The countries with the highest dairy intake also have the highest osteoporosis."

I would ask for proof but why bother. Correlation doesn't mean causation.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you or anything but I thought nutrition wan't really studied in medical school...

I still think dairy is the best source of calcium. I also don't think you should cut out food groups unless you have to.

I was comparing the advice I got from DD's paediatrician (who has been to medical school) to stuff you read on vegan websites and on here sometimes about how dairy is not good but terrible for your bones.

I think I'll go with the doctor's advice on this one.

Lol no vegan has ever gone to medical school?

You trust a doctor that says to eat a load of foods designed for another mammals infants who's anatomy is totally difference.

Wasn't so long ago smoking was recommended by doctors and a bit of herein to help baby's sleep.

The medical advice is always hideously outdated.

Why do you think dairy is the best source of calcium? Because its rbeen rammed down your throat by lots of vested interests by chance?

Why do you think dairy is the best source of calcium?

Because it is.