Most people are clueless about protein or calcium needed

[Floflomo]

I follow a vegan diet and the amount of people that go on about protein or calcium is ridiculous and just shows they are totally clueless.

The RDA for protein isn't that big at all, many veg contains protein so before even getting onto to nuts, seeds and pulses I've had half of the RDA just from veg.

Calcium is in way more foods than just dairy, I had figs in porridge for breakfast made with almond milk. For lunch I'm having a salad with lots of leafy greens with a dressing made from tahini, so I'm doing just great with calum and getting it from a variety of sources.

It's completely untrue that Indians are mostly vegetarian - 70% of Indians eat meat. Which specific animal it comes from will vary according to their religion (Hindus don't eat beef, Muslims don't eat pork etc), but can we please stop with this assertion that India is a nation of vegetarians?

OP you remind me of my favourite joke.

How do you know if someone you meet is vegan?

Don't worry, they'll tell you.

Cote love your first post

YABU op. Not all protein is created equal.

You can have all the leafy greens you want - they're unlikely to do as much for you as a nice bit of steak or a couple of boiled eggs.

Yeah cos Venus Williams is such a joke, being so weak and thin with no muscles or energy on her vegan diet. Absolutely hilarious

I must admit, when I stopped being vegan and started eating meat again, I felt and looked better.

(Until I started eating bacon and egg sandwiches every day and put on a shitload of weight, that is.)

But then I don't think I was a very healthy vegan either. Chips, Starburst sweets, Coke, veggie burgers...all vegan and none of them very good for you.

But - I do agree with you OP about people being ignorant on protein requirements. It makes me cringe the number of people these days banging on about protein shakes. Unless you're going in for seriously heavy workouts they're really not needed. And even then I think they're questionable. I watched a thing recently that said the number of people with kidney stones has rocketed lately. Too much protein really isn't good for you...

www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/soy-free-vegan-foods-that-have-more-protein-than-beef/

Even WHO are saying red meat is probably carcinogenic. Vegans and veggies have been saying this for years. Meat eaters who defend eating meat remind me of creationists in America. There's no point arguing or showing evidence.

I eat meat but I don't kid myself about the effects on my body or the world.

I believe the who said processed meat is carcinogenic.

Sorry it does say 'red meat is probably carcinogenic' but it also says 'there isn't much evidence'

And red meat probably is.

If I searched the internet I could probably find articles on everything with ponderings that it may be carcinogenic.

Makes me think of this

Tbh my main issue I have when discussing these things with a vegan friend is that I feel flying food thousands of miles is worse for the planet.

Also look at things like report about how much water it takes to grow almonds for milk.

Personally we cut down our meat consumption and bought locally reared meat. We are lucky to afford it, even though we have to be careful with portions etc to afford it.

We live rurally and lots of farms sell veg as well. It's actually cheaper than the supermarket.

I do think about the impact my food has on the planet. But the solution for me has never to become vegan.

We do eat very healthily. Mainly because the kids are competitive athletes. All our food isn't ethically sources, but I would say about 80% is.

But it depends on your version of ethically sourced.

And red meat probably is.

You can say that about anything though if followed up with 'but there is much evidence'

I don't think WHO go around saying everything is probably carcinogenic.

Yy with almond milk I agree. However it's a drop in the ocean compared to how much water is used to raise cattle.

It's quite eye-opening about the air miles of cheap meat. Chicken from Taiwan is being sold in morrisons at the moment. Our consumption of meat as a country is to much. We don't need it everyday we want it everyday 2/3x a day and our whole attitude of me me me is fucking up the planet.

Shallishanti, I knew someone would dig this dumb article up. Milk production is much worse as far as environmental impact goes than almond milk.

That said, I think it's stupid consuming something that is flown in from so far away when there are locally sourced alternatives like oat or soya milk, which are available with added calcium.

By the way, the amount of calcium consumed is in no way as important as having normal vitamin D levels. And the vast majority of people in the UK suffer from a lack of vitamin D, especially during the winter months. The average diet - no matter if it is omnivore, vegetarian or vegan - does not contain enough vitamin D. Without vitamin D, calcium is not absorbed in sufficient amounts.

OP, you are totally right about calcium and protein. But then, most people are totally clueless about nutrition anyway.

It's the nitrites and sulphites in processed red meat that are the issue. Very bad for the gut, both directly and in terms of changing the gut microbiome. The research on red meat isn't great.

Humans are omnivorous. Our teeth and our gut show that. We are successful partly because we are incredibly adaptable and thus can thrive on a huge variety of diets. For example, artic populations who eat their native diet of mainly incredibly fatty meat and fish with tiny amounts of veg matter (including semi digested lichen from reindeer stomach) are healthy. Certain African hunters who have blood and milk as a major part of their diet are healthy. Hunter gatherers are generally healthy too, with a high proportion of vegetable contribution supplemented by game. Veganism can work too, but it's certainly not easy to get full nutrition and it's not some sort of panacea.

There is no one way to eat healthily. For us in the west, the sensible way is probably to eat a good variety of foods, in a reasonably natural state (I.e a chicken breast is better than a processed chicken nugget) with minimal processed stuff, plenty of veg, easy on the sugar and booze, don't smoke, keep active.

Food fundamentalists have just got it wrong - humans are omnivorous and adaptable. I have zero patience for the militant 'clean eating/paleo/this diet will cure your cancer/meat is murder' attitude. There's zero scientific basis for any of it (paleo is particularly fun to takedown scientifically.) in my opinion, a lot of these extreme diets are forms of orthorexia or masking eating disorders.

What we need to focus on is better farming conditions (humane husbandry) and breaking the grip things like the sugar industry have.

Summer and Axekick, it's not just ponderings or speculation though - the WHO this week have stated that processed meat causes cancer and that red meat probably does. This isn't Daily Mail scaremongering.

More info on it with a breakdown of the figures etc here - scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/10/26/processed-meat-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/

BrandNew, I agree with you. I do eat meat but not that much. I find it staggering the amount that some people eat. I know in my heart that I should be veggie again, it's just laziness on my part that prevents it.

Summer and Axekick, it's not just ponderings or speculation though - the WHO this week have stated that processed meat causes cancer and that red meat probably does. This isn't Daily Mail scaremongering.

I am not denying that processed meats can cause cancer. I am pointing out that, in relation to the red meat point of pps post, there the report says 'red meat is probably carcinogenic....but there is not much evidence'

So at this time they believe it might be but there isn't much evidence to support it

There is lots of things we can say, if we don't have much evidence to support it. That's my point

Tbh I don't eat much red meat. Probably once every 3 weeks.

So I am not blindly denying that it may not be the best for help.

I just think saying something is probably carcinogenic but there isn't much evidence...isn't conclusive.

Neither I drink cows milk, eat yoghurt or cheese.

Gives me a terrible tummy. So I am not having a downer on almond milk in favour of cows milk.

My point is that some more ethical choices are not ethical at all.

Its report said 50g of processed meat a day increased the chance of developing colorectal cancer by 18%

'Causes cancer' is scaremongering.

An 18% increase in the risk of one type of cancer and only IF you are eating a decent portion of processed meat every single day.

50g is not a decent portion Summer - it's less than 2oz. And is the 18% increase relative or absolute? If it's relative then it might be you've increased your risk from 5% to 6%.

OP. I am also vegan. You really need to make sure your B12 intake is high enough - if you don't eat/drink supplemented foods you need to take a supplement.

I'd also strongly recommend looking into supplementing with but K2, there is no natural vegan source other than natto which, frankly, sounds vile.

Also consider a D3 supplement (as should everyone on this thread) many (most?) people in the UK are deficient.

Finally, sanctimonious vegans annoy people rather than converting them...

why these hostile reactions to a vegan diet? TU op, it's informative and makes me rethink my food assumptions.

Yes there's high correlation for a small increased risk of a certain type of cancer. To be fair most food cancer stories are fairly low correlation for small increased risk.