to not want to be held hostage by a bus driver?

[LeftMyRidingCropInTheMortuary]

On the bus this morning. Gridlocked with other buses by the time we get to city centre. We are about 3 feet from the bus stop and stuck. About 15 of us want off. We wait ten mins then I ask the driver to let me off. He refuses as he's not allowed to open doors btween stops. And tells me if I open door he will call police.

Surely he HAS to let me off if I insist otherwise he is holding me hostage? After all I'm a grown up and can choose what risks to take.

Annoying, maybe, but rules are in place for a reason, OP.

HighFive to you too NotaSingleFuck

My H drives in Edinburgh so thankfully had no personal involvement in either Clutha or the Bin Lorry Crash. I (and more importantly HE) would take his hat off (if the 'little man with the big hat' had one!) to you for what you did in both those emergencies. Huge respect to you.

(Very sad news about the Clutha just this weekend, it being 'avoidable' and all. No words, really. )

The majority of drivers earn their money (and it isn't good, compared to a train or tube driver, who doesn't have to deal with the public either.). The Unions are poor and many Co's have a policy of firing first and then seeing who will take it onto a Tribunal.

For those who come across an arse of a Driver, well, sorry.
For those whose Driver wont do a 'door to door' - tough.

But, I'm telling you, like NotaSingleFuck if you don't DO the job, you don't really know so maybe bite your lip, be civil and treat Drivers the way you'd like them to treat you and UNDERSTAND when they cant 'bend the rules' just for you. It's their job, and it's your 2/5/10 minutes.

hear hear pebble, well said.

I got annoyed with some pensioners, with their free passes, whinging about a driver who had just come on a shift taking a minute to adjust his seat. Poor guy had a 3 hour round trip ahead of him, with no break.

Thanks pebble I had a lump in my throat reading that. It wasn't great that's for sure. I took a guy covered in dust who was on the phone to someone telling them it was a helicopter but he was alive. Another driver got a lovely gay couple the next day drinking on the bus. He explained they couldn't and they started sobbing. They were going to the Clutha to wait for either their friend or his body being found. Driver let them finish their wine in the end it was a body came out.

Scremedsford. What typical leftie academic response. The 'uman rights act is just the sort of crap that causes this sort of issue in the first place.

You can't sign away your rights under the act? Well you can't also sign away someone's rights in health and safety, so by saying "at your own risk" you are not indemnifying yourself. You will also find that when a bus driver lets someone off between stops and that person is hit and injured, a court will say that the driver did not follow best practice and will be held accountable.

That's the difference between academia and the real life .........

Ohbehave- it's not the typical response from an academic who actually knows what they're talking about so please don't use it to bash human rights.

I read this thread on the train last night, just needed to check it was real and that there are actually folk who think you can pitch up in Strasbourg and suggest not being able to get off at a spot that is slightly more convenient is a breach of human rights.

Oh come on. It's typical human rights bull that people use because they can't get their own way. The real human rights issues are where people fear for their life because of their beliefs etc. This is just a 1st world problem that is fodder for the human rights brigade and lawyers

Not doubting that it's a triviality. More saying I think any of the posters seriously putting forward this as an argument are in anyway representative of professional and informed opinion on the issue and are either seriously mistaken on the matter or putting it forward to be contentious.

"A lot more effort than just being a polite driver. It's life."

Unless you've actually been a bus driver, I don't see how you can know that.

Years ago I was cycling through Manchester, along a bus lane/ cycle path. It was not that long after bus deregulation which meant there were a lot of buses and some not particularly great drivers around. I wasn't near a bus stop and was cruising along, with an eye on the traffic to my right. As I got level with a set of bus doors the driver decided to let people off. Two rather large men stepped out directly into my path.

I hit them. I didn't really have a chance as they stepped straight out in front of me. They were unhurt. I was mildly concussed and I still have a scar on my elbow -though it wasn't much more than road rash at the time. The front wheel of my bike was bent at 90 degrees. It needed a new wheel, new tyre, new front forks and new handlebars as the force of the blow had bent them as well. I got nothing out of the bus company.

Consequently I now always expect people to get out of cars/ buses whatever when in slow-moving traffic and act accordingly. It is dangerous to let people off when they're not at a stop. And unfortunately the stop means the stop, not 3 feet away, or 5 feet, or 10 or 30, which is what it could stretch to. The stop is the stop. I was lucky, so were the bus passengers. It could have been a lot worse.

ohbehave Scremedsford. What typical leftie academic response. The 'uman rights act is just the sort of crap that causes this sort of issue in the first place.

You and your colleagues who have chimed in to try and resurrect this and turn it into a self-congratulatory party must have pretty poor instincts. I'm actually fairly right wing. You just get so many things wrong. If you want to be a lawyer, go and do a law degree and a traineeship, work in the courts in private practice, work for local authorities, and then maybe, when you are senior enough, you will be asked to write the occasional academic article or oversee teaching.

You can't sign away your rights under the act? Well you can't also sign away someone's rights in health and safety, so by saying "at your own risk" you are not indemnifying yourself.

Its sad that you are unaware that the Health and Safety At Work Act 1974 doesn't apply to passengers and is purely criminal legislation. I think you are confusing it with a claim under tort.

You will also find that when a bus driver lets someone off between stops and that person is hit and injured, a court will say that the driver did not follow best practice and will be held accountable.

If you are that interested in this topic (and I would assume you are since as I say you have resurrected my comments several pages back simply to abuse me), you might want to read the typical bus company's terms and conditions, and where they are to be found. Have a look at a bus ticket. On the back, you may find a limitation of liability clause. Now, while you cannot exclude liability for negligence causing death or personal injury, there is a whole line of case law which distinguishes where there has been negligence or not. Which is why I suggested the sensible driver might wish to advise the hurried passenger that getting off is against the rules/not recommended. Did you really imagine that every bus passenger who suffers an injury on a bus may sue for absolutely anything? How misinformed.

Otherwise, calm yourself, get a grip and don't let your personal excitement get in the way of reasoning (admittedly this seems unlikely to appeal to you when you can resort to abuse).

It's typical human rights bull that people use because they can't get their own way. The real human rights issues are where people fear for their life because of their beliefs etc.

I can see that's really got you worried. You would think bus companies would review their practices for compliance. I wonder why anyone would object to human rights. Its pretty ignorant to assume that they are limited to people in third world countries suffering torture and the government having to give prisoners the right to vote.

Perhaps you might like to educate yourself by googling the ECHR itself and reading over what the rights are. For one thing, they prevent racial, sexual and disability discrimination, and the UK joining the then EEC is what led to most of our anti=discrimination laws. If you think that's bullshit, then I'm afraid its just the case that you are unable to take in information about the world around you.

Or what about the right to a fair trial? Not bothered if you are asked for too much Council Tax and want to appeal then? Privacy in your own home? Protection of your property? Nah, why bother. Just let the government take it all.

Oh, and if some jumped up megalomaniac driver having an attack of self importance and 'efl n'safety fakeitis and accompanying inspector wish to hold me in a bus against my will, then fair dos, they can deal with the consequences. There is no way on this planet I am being prevented from leaving a bus which is stationary for a lengthy period of time when there is safe exit. Yes, we get it, you are a bus driver, however other people also have jobs, and you would think in the midst of all your condemnation of how stupid passengers are, you might have worked out the risk of being sued by someone who misses a vital meeting because of being unlawfully arrested on a bus for an excessive period of time or being abused by a bus company employee. From the way you're carrying on, that sounds far more likely.

I doubt you can take in that much detailed information in one go though, so this post isn't really for your benefit.

scremersford, you're doing yourself no favours here, you're coming across as a right dick.

scremersford, you're doing yourself no favours here, you're coming across as a right dick

Hey ssd I'll not be lonely then. I just enjoy legal debate, but I don't appreciate being abused. You all right with that?

If you don't like human rights, the right not to be falsely imprisoned has been around in English law for um about 800 years.

If you don't like listening to me, google it - its a fairly interesting topic.

I doubt you can take in that much detailed information in one go though, so this post isn't really for your benefit

You're in danger of coming across as a twat. Is there really any need for such condescending sarcasm?

at waiting until you're in the stop being false imprisonment. ( I'm on the wine but it sounds so....dramatic! I had to giggle.)
Carry on, educated folk......

Scremersford. What a condescending reply. Are you really comparing not being allowed to get off a buss with sexism and racism. You are just the sort of PC arse that makes it harder for the truly deserving cases out there. Are you Cherie Blaire by any chance?

That will be the agreed, registered arrangement, quietbat. They're not allowed to just decide to do it. As I mentioned upthread, all services taking a fare have to be registered with VOSA with details of routes, whether limited stop, all stops or hail and ride and so on. Many of our long distance services are a combination of these, depending on the part of the route they're on.

It's worse than that, it's unlawfully arrested

And i do live in the countryside! Our A roads do tend to have designated stops, though some of them seem to be nowhere near anyhouses, whatsoever! There's a few more remote villages with hail and ride arrangements, as well as housing estates in towns, served by secured minibuses which have the same arrangements, as there are no designated bus stops.

Both situations are very different from a gridlocked main road in a town or city.

For reward or hire licence. Many complicated rules.....and the governing body in Scotland now have operatives all over the place who think they're cops enforcing the rules. I hate upsetting my regular passengers. That's why I carry the paperwork I posted. I show them so they can understand and know it's not personal. They all have a laugh now about the "bus polis " with me....

ourye What typical leftie academic response. The 'uman rights act is just the sort of crap that causes this sort of issue in the first place.

You're in danger of coming across as a twat. Is there really any need for such condescending sarcasm?

You're right of course.

Trying to keep a sense of perspective. I, like some other posters have described, have been "kept" on a bus for longer than the OP described. One time, when people were asking to be let off between stops, the bus driver switched off the engine and deactivated the doors. I personally couldn't get to an emergency handle because the bus was so crowded with people standing and people who hadn't reached their stops. I was also standing quite close to the driver. I must admit I made my voice heard, I may have been somewhat condescending, but the doors were opened.

It was a flexitime job, so I couldn't be blamed for not leaving early enough. However that same route was so prone to such delays at that time you couldn't accurately predict whether your journey would take the normal 25 minutes, or approaching 1 hour 25 minutes. Its pretty soul destroying to be trying to build up flexitime to allow you to leave early twice a month for a special event. I also came in seriously late for a few meetings, which looks unprofessional.

No-one had a go at me for being a left wing academic, no-one called me condescending, but a couple of people muttered a thanks and one person thanked me for speaking up when those bloody doors opened. The bus driver did however call me a "fucking blond bimbo bitch lawyer hoor" as I left.

I didn't sue him, or even report him. I just wanted to get to my bloody work so I didn't have to work late yet again and miss time with my family.

But if you are a lawyer, even a fucking cunt one, the right not to be falsely imprisoned is one of the first things you learn about when studying the history of English law, as it impacts on other things and is now in Article 5 of the ECHR.

As for risking "being unpopular" on mumsnet - oh fgs grow up, its not school.

And the ECHR is the first thing people shout when they don't have a real argument. It's right that you argue against sexism or racism. But to really compare this bull against being illegally held hostage shows how petty the whole thing about human rights has become.

I think that those that site human rights as reason to shout in most cases are just crying for no reason.

Can I complain about my human rights when I get shot at with air pistols? Happened twice and scares the shit out of me