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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to be held hostage by a bus driver?

212 replies

LeftMyRidingCropInTheMortuary · 22/10/2015 18:13

On the bus this morning. Gridlocked with other buses by the time we get to city centre. We are about 3 feet from the bus stop and stuck. About 15 of us want off. We wait ten mins then I ask the driver to let me off. He refuses as he's not allowed to open doors btween stops. And tells me if I open door he will call police.

Surely he HAS to let me off if I insist otherwise he is holding me hostage? After all I'm a grown up and can choose what risks to take.

OP posts:
G1veMeStrength · 23/10/2015 10:57

If I had waited for 10 minutes when the bus stop was so close I'd be annoyed and want to get off. I think I would just open the emergency handle and be done with it. I can't see why the bus driver would 'call the police' as I don't think a swat team would swoop in and capture you. You'd be long gone.

I would of course look both ways when I got off the bus.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 23/10/2015 10:58

It certainly is a disciplinary situation, but like anything, its only an issue when its an issue. If you let a hundred people a day off all over the place and either no-one sees you, or nothing happens, then its good. However if you have an inspector on board (you can be assessed by someone who appears to be just another passenger, you only find out afterwards) and they write you up for it, you can be in a lot of trouble.
Or if you let someone off and they get hit by a motorbike (happened to a bus driver I know of) you're in a massive lot of trouble.

iamaboveandBeyond · 23/10/2015 11:00

3 ft is very different to randomly stopping between stops. Drivers all have their own interpretation as to the right exact place to stop at the stop anyway, which becomes very obvious when youre waiting in a wheelchair (using the wheelchair to point put that it is obvious that the walk is a problem) and they can stop with the door anywhere in a sort of 10ft space, sometimes up to six foot behind where i am waiting at the stop.

Or are people seriously saying i could complain to the police about this?

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 23/10/2015 11:03

Well this from the TFl website. It's down to what is deemed safe place to allow passengers to alight the bus driver may deem that the only safe place to stop is actual bus stops so would in fact be breaking the law by stopping I between.
Quote:
Bus drivers must, by law, ensure that they stop in a safe place to allow passengers on or off the bus. To ensure that we can provide a safe, structured and reliable bus service, our buses stop for passengers only at designated bus stops

To answer boffinmum that would be exceptional circumstances

We accept that there may be extreme circumstances, such as on a hot day when the bus is stuck in traffic and clearly going nowhere for a long time. In such cases, it is reasonable for drivers to pull over at a safe place and let passengers get off if they wish. However, drivers should only do this if they judge it is safe to do so.

purplemunkey · 23/10/2015 11:03

G1veMeStrength I'd have had to poke my head out of the doors to look both ways before I stepped off in the incident I described, so still would have got hit by the cyclist coming down the narrow gap between the traffic and the pavement.

I agree that a lot of drivers do it anyway and I have got off between stops after the cyclist incident but its always stuck with me and I completely understand when drivers refuse to open doors.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 23/10/2015 11:05

I'd say OP is massively exaggerating and it wasn't 3ft at all. I doubt it was ten minutes either. Hyperbolic posting to get everyone to agree with her.

Scremersford · 23/10/2015 11:06

If I could make a simple, practical suggestion amidst all this hyperbole and misclaim.

Bus companies instruct their drivers to exercise common sense and reasonable care when opening doors between stops. If a passenger insists on exercising their right to leave and the bus driver is against it, the bus driver simply states the words "at your own risk" loudly and clearly so that any witnesses, inspectors, mystery travellers and cameras may record it.

There could be even be a little sign stating "passengers alight from the vehicle at their own risk" on the bus.

Though I suspect this is already covered in any sensible bus company's terms and conditions already.

pebbletime · 23/10/2015 11:07

Scremersford

Am I going to put a case number online or by Pm thus potentially outing myself and giving out details of a former work colleague of my H's.

Er, no. You loon. Grin

You are welcome to go look up previous cases if you are so keen to prove your point. I think your phrase 'hazard a guess' is quite appropriate here?

ProudAS · 23/10/2015 11:10

You were three feet from the bus stop!

If it's not marked on the road who is to say how close to a stop the bus has to be before it is deemed to be at the stop?

If the stop is marked on the road what happens if it is unavailable due to another bus or emergency vehicle being there?

I can understand the driver not wanting to let the OP off but threatening to call the police if she let's herself off is a bit much.

The door release may only for passengers to use in an emergency but who is to say what constitutes an emergency? What if someone with urge incontinence needs the loo or someone with severe anxiety is on the brink of a panic attack- is that an emergency or is it only an emergency when the driver either says so or becomes incoherent?

Notasinglefuckwasgiven · 23/10/2015 11:12

I signed a new contract with my employer. Should have been clearer, sorry. It's a breach of transport industry law. We've had several sacked. I don't want an argument I'm just explaining why we don't do it here.

pebbletime · 23/10/2015 11:12

sorry,
the phrase: 'you loon' was unnecessary and not meant to be offensive to anyone with MH issues either. I apologise.

But, really. The passengers my H has most trouble with are either the Peckham Destroyer type or people like you who would stand in the middle of traffic causing a pile up whilst insisting that they were right whilst being hugely patronising and offensive to the driver at the same time.

Because, THEY KNOW better than the driver, who knows his/her Company rules, the likelihood of getting fired, and the traffic conditions and how many people have previously been mashed on this section of road over the last year far better than some random passenger.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 23/10/2015 11:12

Bus companies instruct their drivers to exercise common sense and reasonable care when opening doors between stops
Though I suspect this is already covered in any sensible bus company's terms and conditions already

Bus companies instruct their drivers NOT to open the doors between stops. That way, if they do and something happens to the passenger, they can blame the driver personally.

Seriously, its not very hard to understand. Buses travel from stop to stop. You can't hail a bus anywhere, and you can't get off when you feel like it. What you're looking for there is a taxi. Use one of those if you don't like how buses work.

ghostspirit · 23/10/2015 11:16

smiler.. the kids love him haah

Notasinglefuckwasgiven · 23/10/2015 11:17

Most of us have been sued before too. I have. DP has a case awaiting a decision at the moment. He broke the doors rule for a passenger now she wants a payout because it was unsafe and she hurt her arm. Thankfully cctv is in his favour but it's an awful feeling. I've been sued myself. It is on my record. I have to tow the line. Frustrating Sad

Scremersford · 23/10/2015 11:19

pebbletimeAm I going to put a case number online or by Pm thus potentially outing myself and giving out details of a former work colleague of my H's.

Court cases are in the public domain. The more important ones (i.e. the ones which make law, as you claim this one does) are reported. We do not have secret courts in this country.

Er, no. You loon. grin

You think I'm a lunatic? For asking you to provide evidence when you mis-state the law?

You are welcome to go look up previous cases if you are so keen to prove your point. I think your phrase 'hazard a guess' is quite appropriate here?

I've used the normal legal search methods (and I'm a lawyer specialising in human rights law, with access to all mainline legal case reporting databases) and I can't find it. Perhaps you could clarify if it is a criminal case involving dangerous driving or a civil case involving an employment tribunal claim against unfair dismissal?

In any scenario, both experience and common sense dictate that any case reaching court is much more complex than most on one side would have us believe.

Again, if bus companies, as you have previously suggested, are relying on this case to reinforce some notion that the law dictates that it is illegal to let passengers off between stops, they will surely be all in favour of publicising the name of this remarkable case? If there are sensitivities involving ID, then the courts simply refer to any individuals involved by random initials.

iamaboveandBeyond · 23/10/2015 11:21

Constance, i can believe it is 3ft - in the past i've had a bus stop at traffic lights a metre from the stop and refuse to let me off too. I've also had a bus at the same traffic lights refuse to let me on because they'd pulled a metre away (couldnt be any mroe than that due to how close the stop is to the lights), and refuse to let me off there when i've missed my stop.

Which is fine, i'm not that bothered and rules are rules, apart from being irked that when the driver thinks it is okay (as in my first post) to stop somewhere else, all is hunky dory.

Sparklingbrook · 23/10/2015 11:24

OMG if people are going to start rummaging about looking for court cases I am getting off this particular thread right now even if it's not at a stop.

Team Busdriver.

pebbletime · 23/10/2015 11:33

Yes, I know court cases are in public domain, thanks.

I have already apologised unreservedly for calling you a 'loon'.

Like Constance and Notasinglefuck say just above, the bus Co will make it part of the Contract of the Employee not to open doors so when and if they do and a passenger exits and is hit then the Employee is fired (thus the tribunal claim) and can face being in Court for driving issues / damages too.

It's not that hard to understand, unless you willfully don't want to?

You seem to have searched all UK records pretty quick Wink
Perhaps your time would be better spent on your HR work rather than trying to disprove what I say.
I wont provide any more details I am afraid. It is not my 'story to tell' other than in generalities and even if I did you would just keep arguing rather than using common sense, which I appreciate you may be in short supply of.

This example is about the passengers overriding sense of entitlement which meant she/he thought she should be able to force the driver to break the rules of his contract which he was not willing to do.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/10/2015 11:34

The problem with suggesting the driver's having discretion is that it puts the onus on them to select a safe place to let the passengers off. So, if a passenger is subsequently injured they are at risk of being liable (or at least of someone trying to blame them).

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/10/2015 11:35

Stray apostrophe drivers. I should edit more carefully

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 23/10/2015 11:36

You think the man should lose his job because you're too important to wait a few minutes?

Why should I lose mine because I'm 10 minutes late because of a small, large hatted, man??

(Both scenarios are as likely as each other)...

MrsDeVere · 23/10/2015 11:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 23/10/2015 11:37

Constance, i can believe it is 3ft - in the past i've had a bus stop at traffic lights a metre from the stop and refuse to let me off too. I've also had a bus at the same traffic lights refuse to let me on because they'd pulled a metre away (couldnt be any mroe than that due to how close the stop is to the lights), and refuse to let me off there when i've missed my stop.

Not sure what your point is here, the one I'm taking away from it is that some bus drivers are petty cunts.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 23/10/2015 11:38

Actually they aren't. Is being 10 mins late for your job gross misconduct? And if you're ten mins late because the bus was ten minutes late, you clearly need to be on an earlier bus Hmm

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 23/10/2015 11:38

Plenty of passengers are petty cunts, as you are showing us.