to not want to be held hostage by a bus driver?

[LeftMyRidingCropInTheMortuary]

On the bus this morning. Gridlocked with other buses by the time we get to city centre. We are about 3 feet from the bus stop and stuck. About 15 of us want off. We wait ten mins then I ask the driver to let me off. He refuses as he's not allowed to open doors btween stops. And tells me if I open door he will call police.

Surely he HAS to let me off if I insist otherwise he is holding me hostage? After all I'm a grown up and can choose what risks to take.

pebbletime Perhaps your time would be better spent on your HR work rather than trying to disprove what I say.

I'm currently writing a briefing note on certain articles of the ECHR. I also write academic articles and exam questions. I'm afraid I sometimes use mumsnet for inspiration.

I wont provide any more details I am afraid. It is not my 'story to tell' other than in generalities and even if I did you would just keep arguing rather than using common sense, which I appreciate you may be in short supply of.

You haven't actually described its generalities either. It makes quite a difference whether you are referring to, for instance, an employment tribunal case involving an unfair dismissal claim, in which opening the doors between stops was one of many disciplinary issues. Perhaps you feel able to reveal whether you are referring to a criminal or civil case?

I, along with most humans, generally possess sufficient powers of reasoning to take responsibility for deciding when it is safe to get off a stationary bus. This is not to say the occasional accident has never happened, in all of the towns and cities in Britain, just as accidents happen on all of our roads every day.

I will repeat. It is impossible to contract out of the ECHR.

This example is about the passengers overriding sense of entitlement which meant she/he thought

I'd say there was more than a whiff of the usual misogynism, all working class jobs are done by men who are heroes stereotyping/anyone else is stupid/a loon, about this thread. And yes I am aware there are female bus drivers!

#teambusdriver `

A health and safety thing. If he had opened the doors and in the unlikely event of something bad happening, he would have been liable. That was all it was. However, threatening to call the police was over the top, I think they would have just laughed! He probably just knew he didn't actually have the authority to stop you opening the doors and had to say something to look like he did.

pebbletime Perhaps your time would be better spent on your HR work rather than trying to disprove what I say.

I'm currently writing a briefing note on certain articles of the ECHR. I also write academic articles and exam questions. I'm afraid I sometimes use mumsnet for inspiration.

well, that's up to you, personally I have a divide between working and MN'ing

I wont provide any more details I am afraid. It is not my 'story to tell' other than in generalities and even if I did you would just keep arguing rather than using common sense, which I appreciate you may be in short supply of.

You haven't actually described its generalities either. It makes quite a difference whether you are referring to, for instance, an employment tribunal case involving an unfair dismissal claim, in which opening the doors between stops was one of many disciplinary issues. Perhaps you feel able to reveal whether you are referring to a criminal or civil case?

I've already said I wont discuss further details and why

I, along with most humans, generally possess sufficient powers of reasoning to take responsibility for deciding when it is safe to get off a stationary bus. This is not to say the occasional accident has never happened, in all of the towns and cities in Britain, just as accidents happen on all of our roads every day.

This is NOT about your common sense. It is about a driver exposing themselves to disciplinary action and potential Court action.

I will repeat. It is impossible to contract out of the ECHR.

This example is about the passengers overriding sense of entitlement which meant she/he thought

I'd say there was more than a whiff of the usual misogynism, all working class jobs are done by men who are heroes stereotyping/anyone else is stupid/a loon, about this thread. And yes I am aware there are female bus drivers!

*Misogynism?
not from my posts which I have clearly made gender non-specific.
A large chunk of the drivers at my H's garage are female, and quite a few are Polish. Stereotypical enough for you?
Come on, admit it, you've been watching 'On The Buses' whilst your're supposed to be working, haven't you?

My H is certainly not a 'working class hero' (ARE you from 1972?)
In fact, he is a bit of a twunt.
But he does do his job carefully and follows the rules.
If he doesn't the cameras and the 'clippies' (management with clipboards waiting at stops) or the 'plainclothes passengers' (company employees posing as passengers) WILL eventually catch him.
So, he follows the rules of his contract.
This enables him to keep his job and us to feed our family.

Re the 'loon' comment. Here is my 3rd (and genuine) apology.

#teambusdriver

sorry, failed to bold my last paras from Misogynism down.
those bits are also my replies.

Not being allowed to get off the bus whenever you like is a breach of your human rights? Fucking 'ell

I'm off to sue Otis then - I was in one of their lifts the other day and it flat out REFUSED to allow me to exit between floors.

Looking for my paperwork....If I still have it I will try and post a pic without outing myself

Surely everyone who catches the bus knows bus drivers are only allowed to let you off at bus stops? Sometimes passengers ask and the driver says yes and sometimes they say no. I wouldn't risk my job if I was a driver.

If a passenger started ranting at me about being kept hostage, I definitely wouldn't let them off, because I'm petty. And that's just the kind of person who would blame you if you did let them off and there was an accident.

Offence codes. Held by my helpful boss

"If a passenger started ranting at me about being kept hostage, I definitely wouldn't let them off, because I'm petty. And that's just the kind of person who would blame you if you did let them off and there was an accident."

Hell, yes, MargaretCabbage

A commonsense person might ask, and a driver might do so, if they feel they safely can and depending how strict their Co is what their contract is like.

A person who rants about 'Human Rights / being held hostage'
is NOT the sort of person a Driver is likely to go out of his/her way for or risk their job for. It's basic manners.

Well posted, Notasinglefuckwasgiven

You'd think we were making it up!

That's just the shorthand for much longer more complicated rules. But they are clearly offences which carry a code like all driving offences. The joys

at human rights. We carry a DNA collection kit we get fucking spat on so often. But we are the bastards

If 1% of drivers are petty bastards you will possibly come across them once in one hundred journeys.

If 1% of passengers are petty bastards then a bus driver on a busy urban route may have to deal with half a dozen or more in a shift.

Overall, I think the bus driver has it worse.

Gosh is this still rumbling on? I think this bit from TFL makes the points I wanted to make:

We accept that there may be extreme circumstances, such as on a hot day when the bus is stuck in traffic and clearly going nowhere for a long time. In such cases, it is reasonable for drivers to pull over at a safe place and let passengers get off if they wish. However, drivers should only do this if they judge it is safe to do so.

So safe (ie at the kerb so no motorbikes/cyclists etc able to whizz down the side and able to stop without causing an accident) in the driver's judgement. Not a blanket "only at the bus stop", but instead it relies on good judgement of a capable person which I would think bus drivers ARE; if a person can get a PCV licence and pass the training then they should be deemed capable of manoeuvring the bus to a safe place to let passengers off when exceptional circumstances occur including very slow/standstill traffic. And if they are not deemed capable what the hell are they doing driving a bus?

All of these offence codes and contract requirements just mean that The Bus Company needs to have a rethink and empower their capable staff to make capable decisions. It also means that it's not passengers with the problem in this instance

Being all jobsworth for the sake of three feet suggests the driver has issues.

#TeamCommonSense

I disagree with your logic there Chaz. If you are a pleasant, well mannered and reasonable person and you encounter a shitty person it's shitty regardless of whether you're the driver or a passenger.

I know working with the general public is often horrible. It's why I won't do it any more. But I also don't think there's any justice in excusing pettiness or bloody mindedness because other people have behaved badly towards someone previously.

We should all conduct ourselves properly in public. It would make life much easier!

I have precisely once grumbled to myself about a driver not stopping between stops. I pressed the bell (in good time, as I always do) for the stop about 200yards uphill from my house. I had heavy bags and the weather was foul. The driver, who is a notorious grumpy git, completely ignored the bell and dropped me off at the stop 500 yards downhill from my house.

I didn't complain to te company about him missing my stop, though. I complained about the fact that he was so unreservedly unapologetic and insisted I'd been in the wrong.

One of the many times I've since encountered him, he did the same thing with another bus stop. He was at least driving an express bus, this time, but a little digging uncovered the fact that he was supposed to stop at that stop (by a hospital) at the time. Service with a grunt again, too. I'd spottign why, this time, while we were waiting for the bus to set off from the station, he smoked a cigarette, then spent several minutes puffing on an e-cig, for good measure. Maybe if this particular driver was connected to a nicotine drip, he might manage to be something resembling personable.

And, in the OP's case, if the driver couldn't safely pull the whole bus up to the curb, it doesn't matter if the front of the bus was only 3' from the stop.

kerb! kerb! dammit!

What about "hail and ride" buses that allow you to board or alight anywhere? ....

They probably have a different set of procedures and rules according to the route they are on and whether Hail and Ride has had assessment for that route. I think they still have strict protocols on where they can stop safely.

Hail and Ride is a local council agreement where I work. We only operate a licence and need to follow the local authority rules and regulations to keep the license. Some of my colleagues are arses. We know they are. Most work back breaking hours and are expected to complete the route after physical assaults etc. And we do. I've had a sticking plaster put on my cut head after being lamp with a brick and told to carry on. Despite this I can still say some are arses like in any place.

All fair taking bus routes have to be registered with VOSA and an amendment made, even if an extra bus is put on for a day or two for an event, or if a change is made in the stops served. Details lodged include wether sections of the route are limited stop, all stops or hail and ride. And yes, there will be strict protocol about what is an acceptable place to stop.

Sorry but I find a disproportionate number of bus drivers to be total cunts. Grumpy arseholes who don't even say "hello" or "thank you" or acknowledge you in any way. And make a huff if they have to get out the change. They are often particularly impatient and rude with tourists.

Oddly, I don't find as much cuntage in other lines of work. Even the council and police are bearable in comparison.

And I've been riding buses in Edinburgh for 30 years.

As for not using the bus if I don't like the rules - why should I? It's a bloody public service!

With ref to "you'll sue him if you get off and get hit" I'll just repeat I AM AN ADULT.

And YY to PP who explained legal points (that's my area too!)

Just because the bus company has rules, that does not make it law or enforceable!