To ask those who voted for the conservatives ....

[ginorwine]

Reading the threads here there is much criticism about conservative policy .
A lot of people must have voted for them .
Where are they on mums net ?
And on threads such as those re the w t c cuts are they not representing their views as it was clear this would happen ?
I can tell that they may be slated but surley differing views can be expressed so long as it doesn't get nasty - a know that feeling run high but surley ppl can do so .
So to Tory voters -is it how you anticipated .what are your views ?

For me, Labour seemed intent on ruining things with tax credits. It created a generation of people that didn't want to work or just do the minimum to claim. Employers now find it harder to get full time staff and people won't do overtime as they can claim the same money in benefits for less work.

Children are our future, we can either give them one where work pays or one where benefits are seen as the norm and there is little aspiration.

I don't think any party particularly leads on the NHS.

There are points about them I don't like such as the waste that is universal free school meals but they were the best party for the economy. Yes harsh changes came about but they were overdue.

I've not gained but hopefully our children will have a brighter future.

Can I ask how people get this free, I presume, untaxed money. The only time dh ever claimed was when the company he worked for called in the receivers. When he went to claim jobseekers allowance he entered a world where Kafka himself would have thought was stretching the imagination too far.

Has any one tried to convince someone who works for the unemployment office that they are telling the truth. Dh pointed out that the companies bankruptcy had featured on the news and in the papers. The reply was that dh could have bribed Trevor Mac Donald and the press to write articles and broadcast that the company was in receivership so dh could receive his job seekers allowance.

I would never assume someone with different views from me is left wing. That would be a strange assumption. Some MN posters think Tory voters do not want a welfare state and NHS. That is also wrong.

I'm a Labour voter. I'm probably more left wing than most people but my real ire is not at Tory voters but at those who didn't vote at all. I genuinely think that if someone doesn't vote then it's not just that they shouldn't complain but actually that they shouldn't even have an opinion on the election or the government.

I can't understand anyone voting Tory, I really can't but I respect their right to do so.

Refreshing 11 pages in and no real nastiness unless I missed some, haven't read all posts since page 3

I have to say I do wonder sometimes not very often and normally only on MN when the "did you read the manifesto" question is raised how many people from all political parties sat down and actually read every political manifesto. I mean you could argue people could only really have made an informed choice if they had read all manifestos and compared every single one of those policies in all those manifestos. Somehow I don't think very many of us did that and/or will do it in the future. Very very unlikely.

Spoke to soon Gym

Why on earth does it matter what Fanjo looks like? Of what relevance could it possibly be to this discussion?

I voted against the conservatives for a few reasons. First, they're not tory but thatcherites imo, in the same way that labour was in danger of being blairites instead. Second, despite their wild claims they have a pretty poor record on the economy compared with labour (yes, really!). Third was I'm a raving socialist leftie and would never cast a vote that would blatantly benefit the very few against the whole country.

I voted Lib Dem but if I had to pick between Labour and the Conservatives then I would vote Conservative as they do seem interesting in fiscal responsibility and budgetary discipline (although the fiscal charter goes too far).
At the last Election Miliband and Balls would never give seem to give an answer as to when they would aim to balance the budget which meant to me that they probably wouldn't have done so. Jeremy Corbyn seems even less interested in the deficit and peoples QE is a crazy idea, meaning we would not see Macroeconomic stability under him which would be terrible for the economy.

I toyed with the idea of compulsory tests before voting after talking to a well educated and well paid person in 1997 about why they were voting for Blair and finding out it was because Labour would bring back free eye tests (it wasn't fair he had to pay for them even though he would quite happily spend £50 on Friday night out ).
When asked if that was in the manifesto he admitted he didn't know but it would be ... When told that I didn't think it was he just said well Labour will look after us poor people (from someone earning £30k+ as a starter salary with no responsibilities...)
I liked the idea of a 'which party has this policy' test ...and only if you got above 40% would you be allowed to vote....but sadly that goes against the idea of universal suffrage -which I do (with reservations) support.

"an economy where employers aren't propped up with tax credits and pay living wage plus. I want to be able to take on staff ( manager, not owner) who want to work when I need them, without saying they can't go over so many hours a month when we are busy.
I want tax credits, in the main to go."

Ex Constance Does wanting them to work when you need them means them keeping themselves available just in case. Which is effectively being "on call" Which means they cant earn elsewhere if they are waiting around for the hours you MIGHT give them So i take it if those tax credits are taken away you are going to pay them for being "on call"

I'm another lib dem supporter, and have voted labour previously. I think whomever was in power previously or now would have been given the shitty end of the stick and would have had difficult decisions to make and I'm more happy for the conservatives to be in power than labour as they are generally more fiscally responsible, and no I don't get my information from the daily mail or Murdoch media which seems to be trotted out quite a lot (usually by people who only read the guardian,or even worse the daily mail equivalent that is the Mirror, but then I'm make the same assumptions)

Pre election any criticism of labour policies was generally met with hounding and vitriol, I think that is why there was a large uptick and general gloating when the result turned out the way it did, add to that there was a lot of virtue signalling going on that they had cut off someone on face ache,Twitter or in real life for having different views it's understandable how echoe chambers happen, the rise of UKIP is a perfect example of this, the general consensus on here was that it would split the right leaning vote, there isn't much recognition that it actually took a significant chunk out of labours vote, the vote they was happy for until they wanted discussions to be had that the Labour Party and its most vocal supporters didn't want.

As for WTC, taking party loyalties out of the equation it was an ill thought out policy to begin with, at the time brown had many people from his inner circle telling him so, it needs reform, surely people can see the impact it has had on the job market, it even helped the housing bubble as it was counted towards mortgage availability.

Re. tax credits If an employer offers extra hours they need to be guranteed and regular. Because the system cant keep up. The system wasnt developed for employers whims and bad management.

Often the extra hours offered are intermittent and inconsistent and that is the problem with this.

Incidentally if Tories dont want to be lumped together as all the same then they should practise what they preach They are very happy to lump social housing tenants as all the same.

I once had a Tory voter on here tell me that hot water and heating was a luxury for a social housing tenant and that if ever anything went wrong with mine i should just have all my long hair cut off regardless of whether it suited me or not when i explained i would have trouble washing and rinsing it as its long and thick.

I can't understand people that vote Labour but this is a democracy and tis their right to do so.

I once had a Tory voter on here tell me that hot water and heating was a luxury for a social housing tenant and that if ever anything went wrong with mine i should just have all my long hair cut off regardless of whether it suited me or not when i explained i would have trouble washing and rinsing it as its long and thick

Come on, that is surely here say or trolling from the other side, but as we can mention anecdotes I know of a proud and staunch labour supporter who has a collection of BTL and when questioned previously was 'providing a service' (whilst conveniently ignoring that show was getting assistance the government to help pay her mortgage) yet as soon as the new budget came out she upped the rent because 'why should she pay'

It's almost like people and political affiliations are not black and white and there are many shades of grey, trying to box the 'other' into a neat little package is why general discussion is difficult.

As for this:

Incidentally if Tories dont want to be lumped together as all the same then they should practise what they preach They are happy to lump social housing tenants as all the same

The irony is remarkable.

I have been asking for years for an irony emoticon

[santa]

We don't. There are a vast number of different claiming different benefits. Most people who become unemployed on average are out of work for a year and need help for that year. That was really what the social security system was set up for and how it works across much of the EU - your year of benefits after you've paid in for 3 years to tide you over until you get your next job.

All this pot/kettle stuff is b-o-r-i-n-g.

I think we can all agree that there are twits on both sides of the political fence.

I really enjoy it when posters analyse the issue, illuminate new facts, and suggest solutions.

The "othering" of people one doesn't agree with is tiresome. I understand it's easy to become frustrated when one is passionate, but it only comes across well to readers already in agreement.

It certainly wasnt hearsay Lurker I can actually remember the MN user name that did it.

heigh the political compass is made via a questionnaire...the idea is you answer the questions and the same questions are answered with reference to party manifestos. That way you can see if your general political outlook corresponds to one of the parties....

I am right off the bottom left hand corner....hence I voted Green! Didn't make any difference as I live in one of the safest Labour seats in the country. But at least I knew my vote was going were it should go...to a party that shares my values.

Ok Helena, I believe you but if I recieved that type of comment I would write it of as just trolling, I certainly wouldn't extrapolate that as a typical Tory thinking, but what is your opinion on my anecdote bearing in mind they are dyed in the wool north west labour supporters?

It's interesting to see how close Labour and the Conservatives are on the graph. It's also startling to see that they are both "authoritative."

yup - all very in favour of 'rules'

In fact the green party is the only liberal one isn't it?

Poltical compass was discredited long before the last general election as the majority of correspondences found the most ardent left/right wing into the bottom left, it is not an unbiased resource