Why do people join the army....? and why should we honour them?

[LittleRedSparke]

Ok - i have my tin hat at the ready, and am ready to be flamed.....

This is genuine (i post a bit so you can see this is not my first and i havent nc'd)

First off - I appreciate those who fight for the rights of my country.... but I am not sure why we should raise them to a 'god-like' status, like you see on facebook etc

Yes, they're doing a good job - but no one forces them to do it, as far as I know (prepared to be told i am wrong of course) they join up of their own free will? I read 'how wonderful they are, and how they only do it because of some saint like calling they have'

I dont mean to offend anyone - but I have a friend who is ex-forces, and on occasion he mentions stuff about forces being let down by the government - even though he wasnt there for long, only joined up as he didnt have anywhere to live and no prospects, he's come out - and now has no prospects and has some kind of (non army related) injury, and I just got to thinking.....

I have lots of Navy types in my family. None went anywhere near Afghanistan, only went to the Falklands later and didn't go to Northern Ireland. One of them is a right-wing, sexist bloke who can't stand benefit scroungers or lefties. He had the time of his life in the Navy and did masses of things there is no way he would have done without them. It gave him opportunities, travel and money. Much, much more than he could have hoped for in his home town. Is he a hero for signing up for that? I don't think so. Does he deserve more resources sent on him now he's out than anyone else?

Police and SWs sign up knowing that attacks can happen any time. Firefighters put their lives on the line. Nurses have hellish employment conditions frequently. And there are lots of non-veteran homeless people.

I also don't think we make good choices for where we send people. Obviously not the choice of the serving men and women but you can't argue that it's the same now as my GFs signing up to fight the Nazis.

My Dad joined the navy because his babysitter when he was 4 said she'd marry him if he became a sailor. It was 1945 though, so different times. She didn't though

Yes generally agree with general consensus of similar respect to police, fire officers etc, but not automatic hero worship.

I commemorate those from world wars because they had no choice, were very ordinary people doing the extraordinary.

i have had some wine, but when a man/woman has to carry their own body bag and do a job where they are front line death... then they for me earn their respect for serving their country.

police, fire etc...don't carry there own body bag, nor do they face the danger front personal do! (IED, land mines, bombers etc...

just because you sign up for a service, does not mean you only serve your country bravely, only the public see heroism and honour!

service men and woman protect and serve each other till death!

I can't see how to can compare a nurse and someone joining the army

I would question a person's mental health wanting to be part of the military.

Willingly joining, knowing you will be expected to go to war and watch innocent people being murdered or actually being that murderer

Dp joined the navy aged 16. Aged 23 he was on a ship in the south Atlantic monitoring radar 18 hours a day and being constantly attacked by Argentine planes. His ship got hit and the bomb exploded in the compartment next to the ops room. He was badly burned on his face, hands and back. He has ptsd and has struggled in civvy life. He's one of the lucky ones. 17 died on his ship. Several have committed suicide or drank themselves to death since. We have friends who were at goose green and the death rates in the marines since the conflict is even higher.

They may have joined up for a career but they have all sacrificed in one way or another.

Lucybabs - your post is so offensive I can't even comment back to you.

Coffeeisnectar - I'm sorry to hear of the injuries your son suffered and the losses you have all experienced

A couple of quotations which this thread reminded me of:

"In an essay on Rudyard Kipling, Orwell cited Kipling's phrase "making mock of uniforms that guard you while you sleep" (Kipling, Tommy), and further noted that Kipling's "grasp of function, of who protects whom, is very sound. He sees clearly that men can be highly civilized only while other men ... are there to guard and feed them." (1942)"

And

""We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us."

When you want someone to do something to end the refugee crisis, what are you thinking of? And does it involve the risk of death to those who go to do it?

Truth hurts dontask There are millions of innocent people dead in the middle East because of western wars. Are they ever remembered, honoured or seen as "hero's" ? No they are forgotten about and instead we hero worship dead soldiers

There is absolutely nothing wrong with DH's or DS1's mental health, Lucy.
Your post is incredibly offensive.

What you said wasn't the truth.

I'm not belittling the deaths of innocent people, but remember innocent civilians are killed by their own "governments" or their own people too.

Some soldiers carry out truly heroic acts, saving the lives of civilians.

The nurses and doctors in the British army saved the lives of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan while they were out there.
One medic I know told me how he held the skull together, in his hands, of a young afghan boy who had been injured in a suicide bomb... They managed to save that boys life, along with countless others who were hurt by their own people

As a housing worker and SS worker I have been threatened and very mildly assaulted. I have feared for my safety. I've seen many people beaten, one almost to death (the person concerned succeeded in killing the next person). I have seen people overdose. I have had clients die.

I imagine that nurses, firefighters and police can all tell similar stories. It's not Afghanistan. Of course, plenty of veterans haven't been there either.

Why did they join the military though thefairy ? Being part of the military you are trained to kill? I would question why the hell anyone would put themselves forward for this. Nothing good comes from war, invading countries on behalf of your government killing Innocent people. And for what? We are no safer today than 10 years ago

You're just spouting the usual bullshit, "killing innocent people", do you think the armed forces walked around Helmand province shooting innocent people? It's bullshit. Refer to my previous post.

My DH didn't sign up to kill people. If it came to it, he'd do it, yes. He signed up to do his job. And unfortunately that involves protecting the rights of people who hold such offensive and inaccurate opinions.

My DH signed up to fix aeroplanes. In 28 years he hasn't killed anyone.

I think it's beyond offensive to suggest everyone in the military is mentally ill.

Usual bullshit? Jesus killing Innocent people is the usual bullshit?!
Why exactly did your dh join? What good did/does he think he can do by being in the military?

We are now in 2015 not back in WW2 and how many men would have volunteered if they had known what they were facing..

These days men and women thinking of joining the military know what's ahead

I respect the army as they are risking their lives. I don't respect the cause as they aren't defending our country they are sent to mostly interfere with bully other countries.

Why not deploy them to areas of better use, rebuilding villages etc in 3rd world countries.

thefairy I think you knew I wasn't referring to mechanics, engineers etc.
I am taking about those on the front line "fighting for our freedom"

You didn't differentiate Lucy you tarred them all with the same brush.

It's still wrong to suggest those on the frontline are mentally ill. DH was a helicopter engineer, now has a desk job, they transported the frontline troops. DS1 is Armoured Calvary. They all join up for their own reasons. Like it or not we need a military and it's just as well people do join.

My DH joined up because it's what he'd always wanted to do, he felt a pull to join the army for a number of reasons. Which I don't have to justify to you.

I'm not going to respond to your posts because I find them ignorant, offensive, lacking in any knowledge and I think you're looking for a reaction out of people.

Individuals don't get to choose when and where they fight. That is rather the point of the armed forces.

No war is nice and fair. Armed conflict is always messy and mistakes are always made. It is false to imagine a past where all war was just or a future where it would always be clear when to deploy troops.

nurses don't usually risk their own lives and they can refuse to work in a dangerous situation

Ever faced off a strapping 84yo with a UTI? Or been in the ED on a Saturday night..?

My best friend is a Navy nurse. Went in on £30k rather than the NHS £22k, has access to the best training courses in the world.

Not sure what my point is...