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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Why do people join the army....? and why should we honour them?

281 replies

LittleRedSparke · 16/10/2015 19:19

Ok - i have my tin hat at the ready, and am ready to be flamed.....

This is genuine (i post a bit so you can see this is not my first and i havent nc'd)

First off - I appreciate those who fight for the rights of my country.... but I am not sure why we should raise them to a 'god-like' status, like you see on facebook etc

Yes, they're doing a good job - but no one forces them to do it, as far as I know (prepared to be told i am wrong of course) they join up of their own free will? I read 'how wonderful they are, and how they only do it because of some saint like calling they have'

I dont mean to offend anyone - but I have a friend who is ex-forces, and on occasion he mentions stuff about forces being let down by the government - even though he wasnt there for long, only joined up as he didnt have anywhere to live and no prospects, he's come out - and now has no prospects and has some kind of (non army related) injury, and I just got to thinking.....

OP posts:

howtorebuild · 16/10/2015 19:43

I think these intimidating gangs of Men with their buckets in your face agressively demanding you help hero's, will get a shock once the last of the WW2 veterans pass away. I don't like the way they operate.

Therewasanoldladywho · 16/10/2015 19:45

YANBU

ilovemydoggy · 16/10/2015 19:45

Most young people join because of the career prospects. I work for the mod and I see young men and women go through their training and come out of their training as engineers and they get paid £18k to learn this trade rather then paying and getting in to debt getting a qualification like that. Many of people don't join to go to war zones/dangerous places but to help out when needed. The floods a few years back our army stepped in to help, the recent earthquake on Nepal we have over 200 serviceman helping out rebuilding houses/schools and they come back with such pride that they have helped. If these people didn't join then it would be our sons/daughters/grandchildren/niece/nephew would then have to do the job when things happen.

meditrina · 16/10/2015 19:46

The Poppy Appeal, and RBL, is for all those touched by those wars.

If you watch the Cenotaph march past, you see Bevan Boys, merchant navy, evacuees, civilian ambulance drivers, Arctic convoy, London transport, and many more.

By contrast H4H is only for uniformed personnel from recent conflicts.

merrymouse · 16/10/2015 19:47

nurses don't usually risk their own lives and they can refuse to work in a dangerous situation. Obviously there are other jobs that are inherently dangerous e.g. fire service, but a fireman can leave their job and the idea is to minimise risk.

A soldier in a war zone cannot turn around and say that they have carried out a risk assessment and actually things don't seem too safe so they are booking a flight on the next plane home.

WheresPoIIy · 16/10/2015 19:47

34k is fuck all for a captain to be earning given the calibre of person required to be an officer (rightly so). My husband is a major, he would be earning 2-3 times what he earns now in the private sector, not to mention the fact we'd actually be able to own our own home and not have to move round every two years!

I know plenty of soliders who've made full use of all the training available and who've be signed off and ended up in minimum wage jobs.

I'm genuinely shocked that you see the armed forces as some sort of golden ticket!

dementedma · 16/10/2015 19:50

The Armed Forces - infantry in particular - are one of the few employers who will employ "NEETS" often from poor backgrounds and very low literacy. They end up better clothed, better fed, better physical shape and with a trade and skills. They acquire the family many of them never had.
I work extensively with ex-forces personnel, many of them early service leavers, and the army has given many of them hope.
Agree with the poster above who states that most "veterans" don't like the "hero" title and are very uncomfortable with it. But they do do a job where they may be killed if deployed. Most of us don't have that risk. I would be proud for my son to join the forces if he wants to

WheresPoIIy · 16/10/2015 19:51

My husband was recently one of many service personnel who went to Sierra Leone to help with the Ebola crisis. In doing so he missed 3 months of his 5 month old daughters life and risked his own. Do you honestly think that isn't worth of respect and admiration?

dementedma · 16/10/2015 19:52

Polly lots of well trained and well qualified people end up in poorly paid jobs, civvies as well as military.

Namehanger · 16/10/2015 19:55

The thing I hate is the way that we must continue to send young men into dangerous spaces and wars because otherwise we would be letting down all those who had already died. We can't say Iraq, Afghanistan etc. were a pointless mistake which did us and the people who lived there no f*g good, otherwise the hundreds of thousand dead and maimed would not be 'heroes' and that is too horrible to contemplate.

CwtchMeQuick · 16/10/2015 19:56

Things like this make me cross.

My ex was in the army. I'm not 100% sure of all of his reasons but I know it's all he ever wanted to do. He wanted to serve and protect his country as necessary and stand up for our rights.
Yes many people do join to escape poverty etc. However that doesn't mean we shouldn't respect them for that decision surely.

Men and women in the forces make a lot of personal sacrifices, and as a result National Service is no longer necessary and us civvies are able to remain just that.

My ex was away 7 months at a time, with little communication to me and baby DS. The distance eventually caused the breakdown of our relationship. But I am so proud of him for the things that he chose to do. This is why we should support our troops. My ex was deployed an 18 hour flight away, and as such other people's husbands got to come home every night and see their children.

I have such a huge respect for those in the forces, and their families supporting them. It's no easy job.
Just as I respect the other services. Police, medics, firefighters, they all make personal sacrifices so we don't have to. Why anyone would scrutinise their reasons behind it is beyond me. Just be thankful these people are out there protecting us and our lives and wellbeing.

merrymouse · 16/10/2015 19:57

I'm interested to know how ww2 would have turned out with no armed resistance from the UK.

I thinks it's great to be a pacifist if everybody else in the world is singing from the same hymn sheet.

I can understand turning the other cheek for yourself, but have no comprehension how you would ask your children to do that.

Tiptops · 16/10/2015 19:59

I agree with you OP.

I don't participate in the hero worshipping of people in the armed forces.

That doesn't mean to say someone in the armed forces can't be a hero, but just signing up doesn't automatically make them heroic.

AdoraBell · 16/10/2015 20:02

BIL, now diagnosed with ADD, joined to prove to his father that he is a man. He was 16 at the time.

My late father joined because he didn't like what Hitler was doing in Europe.

They should be honered because they put themselves in the firing line to protect other people.

TheFairyCaravan · 16/10/2015 20:03

My DH is in the RAF, he's done 28 years so far. DS1(20) is in the army, he's been in just over a year. DS2 is a student nurse, he would have joined the army but he's asthmatic.

No one in the military thinks they are "God like" no one thinks they are a "hero". They do a hard, difficult job and they aren't well paid for what they do and what is expected of them. They make huge sacrifices as do their families.

No one wants them put on a pedestal and worshipped but what they do deserve is to be looked after properly both during and after their military service. Like it or not we need a military and we need people to volunteer to do it.

Original poster

LittleRedSparke · 16/10/2015 20:05

£38,847 for a Captain, not £34 - agreed not a huge difference

Why did they join though?

and why do they stay?

OP posts:

dementedma · 16/10/2015 20:05

I agree it shouldn't be hero worshipping. Many in the forces dislike "help for heroes" because of the term "heroes".
But the more I work with them, the more I find out some generally heroic events and activities which are then shrugged off as " it was my job".
My friend who is a senior officer has moved house 19 times in his career and been deployed in Northern Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan. He plays it down but when I asked him once what his worst memories are he said " the ones which wake me in the night screaming and I vomit "

Original poster

LittleRedSparke · 16/10/2015 20:06

CwtchMeQuick - i'm not trying to be offensive - i want to ask the questions

OP posts:

GruntledOne · 16/10/2015 20:06

My cousin is in the army and reckons that for many of his colleagues it's a great life. They get sent all over the world, those with children get out of all the child care, cooking, washing, shopping etc and get their food put in front of them, they get to play with boys' toys, they get trained for free in very marketable skills like HGV driving which it would cost them a fortune to learn elsewhere; and, for the moment at least, the risk of being sent anywhere dangerous is pretty small.

He is also only too well aware that his colleagues aren't automatically heroes, they're ordinary fallible men and women, and indeed a sizeable proportion behave like utter twats. Everywhere they are stationed there are restaurants, pubs and clubs that ban squaddies because of the appalling behaviour of a minority who like to throw their weight around. So he really flinches at the "Help for Heroes" charity and would far rather than we support the British Legion.

Thisismyfirsttime · 16/10/2015 20:09

The whole Help for Heroes thing sickens me a bit to be honest. There should not be a charity fundraising from the general public to provide long term care and accommodation/ modifications/ rehabilitation for injured service personnel. The government should be bloody well doing it. Yes it costs a lot of money but so does sending them to war in the first place. I don't disagree with Help for Heroes at all, but the fact they're needed is shameful.

cdtaylornats · 16/10/2015 20:10

If the world declared peace and we put away the big naval ships and all the military personnel what do we do when there is a natural disaster.

If your on an island thats just been hit by a typhoon you're going to be pretty happy if an American Carrier or a UK Commando Support ship turns up.

SurlyCue · 16/10/2015 20:10

when I asked him once what his worst memories are

Why did you ask him that?

GruntledOne · 16/10/2015 20:10

There was a case recently where an airforce guy was asked, twice, to move around the waiting room. His crime? He was in uniform and he 'might upset other people'.

I think you've been making the mistake of believing the Mail there, Knockme. What actually happened was that the man was asked if he wanted to wait elsewhere because they'd had incidents before of drunken idiots trying to attack people in uniform.

dementedma · 16/10/2015 20:11

What gruntled said.

dementedma · 16/10/2015 20:13

surly because we were talking about his life as friends do and I was trusting him with some painful memories of mine and asked him in return. He trusts me and it helps him to talk sometimes although I know there are some memories that he will never share and that's OK. He just smiles ruefully and says "not for discussion, demented" and we move on.

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