Why do people join the army....? and why should we honour them?

[LittleRedSparke]

Ok - i have my tin hat at the ready, and am ready to be flamed.....

This is genuine (i post a bit so you can see this is not my first and i havent nc'd)

First off - I appreciate those who fight for the rights of my country.... but I am not sure why we should raise them to a 'god-like' status, like you see on facebook etc

Yes, they're doing a good job - but no one forces them to do it, as far as I know (prepared to be told i am wrong of course) they join up of their own free will? I read 'how wonderful they are, and how they only do it because of some saint like calling they have'

I dont mean to offend anyone - but I have a friend who is ex-forces, and on occasion he mentions stuff about forces being let down by the government - even though he wasnt there for long, only joined up as he didnt have anywhere to live and no prospects, he's come out - and now has no prospects and has some kind of (non army related) injury, and I just got to thinking.....

Oh and the wages (no matter what rank you reach) are never positively comparable to civvie street.

Are you sure about that? How can you generalise to that extent? Army lawyers, for example, earn a hell of a lot more than legal aid lawyers.

trojan I have to disagree mod housing is heavily subsidised and therefore much cheaper than market rents. not that this means it shouldn't be top quality.

Higher ranking officers earn more in the military than most equivalents in civvy street. We have to manage expectations when they first come out as they expect the same salary and often need to take a step down the salary scale while they adjust.

The housing is subsidised to balance the fact that moving frequently makes it very difficult to buy your own house and for spouses to establish careers and pay into the family finances.

LittleRedSparke I don't think you meant to be offensive, but this is a topic that's likely to be close to many peoples hearts and often senstive in nature.

In answer to a couple of your questions (from the point of view of a soldiers ex partner)
Many join because of the opportunities being in the forces opens up. Those going to army college earn a damn good wage for 16/17/18 year olds. And I think even those in their early 20s are on a very good wage in relation to their peers. The army (for example, this is the particular force I'm vaguely knowledgable about) put people through qualifications, driving licenses, courses, degrees etc.
They often get to learn a trade. There are opportunities to travel the world, go on skiing/snowboarding holidays etc.
And of course there are also those who join to escape abuse, poverty, lack of job opportunities etc

I think the question of why people stay is probably quite personal. But from my experience friends in the forces become family. Imagine living with these people for months at a time, they are there when you cannot speak to your husband/wife/brother/sister/children and so on. They can identify with each other on a level that civvies often can't identify with squaddies. My ex would have died for his squaddie mates and there would never be a question that they won't do the same for him. So yeah I think it's partly loyalty. Often there's also some kind of contact involved (we put you through a degree you work for us for x amount of years). But perhaps the biggest thing is that being in the forces is a way of life. You're a squaddie or a civvie. I think being in the forces becomes who you are, not just what you do.
It is a decision. But from my experience not one taken lightly and it should be respected

(I'd also just like to point out that I have never met a squaddie that feels that they are due respect, they're just normal people doing what they do. But from my point of view we should respect them, as we should many other professions)

Isn't it victim blaming to suggest an uniformed serviceman might like to wait elsewhere because there have been drunken attacks? In the vein of Women, don't do out at night because MEN might do bad things to you?

Grew up in NI in the 1980's, with all that that entailed. Very grateful to UK armed forces.

My DH is army. He has been away this year more than he has been home. He missed his sons 2nd birthday and he missed his other sons 1st birthday. He has spent more nights than he can count sleeping outside in training. We have gone days on end with no contact. My sons miss their daddy and I miss my husband.

I live in a place I didn't chose so that when he is home we can be a family. My house has a heating system that breaks every 2 weeks but the mod won't fix it, and having a licence to occupy means we have very few rights. The military houses where I live are often targeted for break ins because they know we are often on our own and more vulnerable. The subsided housing... Isn't it wonderful? Would you like to swap? You come move to a cold house, somewhere you didn't chose, that's been broken into 3 times.

They don't ask to be called heroes, the vast majority don't like it. My DH doesn't like going out in uniform if he can help it because people stare. He's a proud man who went into the army to follow his dream. The fact that some of you think the "lower ranks" go in because they have no money and are poorly educated is just offensive. Don't lump everyone into the same group.

There are no other jobs where you sign away your rights, he came home tonight and told me he's going away tomorrow, no discussion. He can't refuse to do something, he'll lose his job or his rank.

He's the proudest man, the kindest and the most patient man I've ever met. He survived 2 tours, he doesn't talk about them much but we lost friends on the same tours. I've watched my friends bury their husbands, helped them move out of their house. He does it out of a sense of duty, not because he had no money and no education like some of you assume.

I'm not saying they are heroes, but please, have some respect for what they do. Men like my husband sign up so the men in your life won't be conscripted if theirs conflict.

I haven't RTFT, flame away if things have moved on.

My cousin joined the Army out of University, he was a bright, personable, engaging graduate. He had many options on 'civvy street' but he wanted to serve his country. He blazed a trail as he progressed his career, everyone he encountered loved and respected him. He was compassionate, generous and committed. He was a skilled helicopter pilot.

His career ended last April when the helicopter he was flying crashed in Kandahar.

You're damn fucking right he was a god. He gave his life so we have the freedom to piss about on the internet criticising whatever the hell we like without fear of being imprisoned and sentenced to weekly lashings. I can't think of anything more worthy of adulation.

It's a job my husband wanted to do since he was a child. He is educated to university level and enjoyed a very comfortable middle class upbringing. No other career was going to give him: The opportunity to travel; The physical challenges; The sports facilities; The unique experiences (I could go on and on). The army are not a closed book as open days are common place throughout the UK. If you are curious then I suggest you go along and speak to people who are actually serving soldiers. Many of you may be surprised to find the stereotypes you hold regarding military personnel are totally wrong. The Facebook posts irritate me beyond words and are often circulated by the likes of 'Britain First', who frankly should be ashamed of themselves, but people like that know no shame. If you'd rather not support the poppy appeal and a military career doesn't appeal to you then you are free to make that choice. Real life is not Facebook life, don't look at those ridiculous posts and think they reflect what soldiers think and feel. They generally don't feel any more special than anybody else. They are often the last to ask for help and if my husband is anything to go by they find the 'hero worship' stuff a bit weird (okay very bloody weird). It's a job but it's a job that can land you with some serious injuries, hence charities have sprung up over the years to plug the funding gap. I accept there is the occasional nutter who served for a week and wants the world to bow down, but you get tossers like that in every walk of life.

Why did I join the Army? Because I had 3 jobs from age 15 to 18, and in each job I was working very hard to make my boss even richer, and being mistreated as I did so. The army seemed more 'honest' more 'honourable' than that. I wanted to feel like I was doing something for a bigger reason than just cash, doing something to help others, and doing something more exciting and varied.

Why should we honour them? Well you shouldn't, or at least we don't expect you to. We are just humans doing a job. I don't know anyone in the military who wants to be a 'hero' or to have civilians big them up. All we want that is 'extra' is for the Government to honour the Military Covenant, to look after us if we suffer life changing injuries and to look after our families if we die in Service. But they don't. So H4H was born. Personally I don't support H4H because it's selective - it's only for soldiers injured in Iraq or Afghan. It should be for all soldiers (sailors airmen) injured in the line of duty and within that should be the understanding and acceptance of the thousands of soldiers who turn to drink and drugs to block out their experiences.

Vintagebeads
"Maybe go off and educate yourself somewhere other than Facebook op,why can't people who don't support remembrance Sunday"

I do support rememberance Sunday - and i am educating myself somewhere that is not facebook - I'm here, talking to people who can say what they think without being scared to do so in RL for fear of being thought uncaring. I personally wont ask this on Facebook, because I dont want to start a flame war between friends i have who dont even know each other, but will take any comments as personal attacks

Cant we ask questions that we want answers to? Where can I ask - here on MN there seems to be a good section of people, most of them sensible.
I'm hoping (and receiving grown up replies to this question, which you cant really get via google)

Welsh - so sorry for your loss.

I feel the same about the friends we lost.

Your cousin gave the ultimate sacrifice. I have so much respect for him

Interesting question.

I think I respect and admire the forces in the same way as teachers, doctors etc. I certainly don't think I hero worship them.

I don't know if they go up the scales automatically or if officers have performance related pay.

There is talk that the Government are getting rid of increment pay. I wonder how much support there will be from the public about this because the Forces can't strike, they'll just have to accept it.

You don't automatically rise up the ranks, you have to be assessed, work hard and earn it. In the army you have to go on courses. DS1 has been at his regiment a very short amount of time, he's just passed his first course to make him eligible for promotion, but he's not been there long enough. However, its been recommended that he goes for his commission, he's got A levels so can, so he's interested in that in a couple of years.

It's different for everyone.

Other occupations carry substantial risk but not the same demand that you will put your life at risk without question - you are allowed to wake up one day and decide you don't want to do it anymore.

The armed forces can only function on the basis that personnel will do what they are told regardless of the circumstances.

Welsh I am sorry for your loss.

Welshmaenad - your cousin sounds amazing - thank you to your family for him x

Thank you.

I'm sure he wouldn't have covered the 'hero' tag - he just wanted to do an exemplary job. He deserves it though.

The salaries may look good on paper but that does not reflect what is expected of them to earn that salary.

I don't like the Help for Heroes charity. It shouldn't exist and I can see why armed forces personnel don't like the label 'hero' either.

That said, I think if we ask people to go and fight and die on our behalf the least we can do is pause to pay them respect once a year. I never feel it is about jingoism or treating people like gods. Just being respectful to people who sacrificed their life for us.

I do however think recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have undermined respect for armed forces and that Remembrance Day and poppies will lose a lot of their meaning once the last survivors of WWII die.

Welsh but it's not enough.

DH joined the army because he didn't get very good grades at school and it was a good opportunity. He's one of the geeks - REME electronics anyone? So he spent his time sitting in mobile workshops fixing radios etc. He went to some grim and stressful places but was always behind the action dong nerd stuff.

The good opportunity thing was a bit of a red herring. A lot of his contemporaries joined to escape abusive families, and we've come to realise he belongs on the 'Stately Homes' threads him reading the introduction to one was an eye opener I can tell you so it gave him the support he never received as a child, he was pushed and encouraged into training.

He wouldn't think of himself as brave, a hero or worthy of God-like devotion. He does wish the government would do more to ensure the safety of soldiers - the same level of H&S the rest of us enjoy and make a joke about. A bit more proactive providing of needed equipment.

Anyway that's behind us. His 22 years are done. After leaving the army he went to sea. I buy my poppy to remember those who died while doing our elected governments' orders, give to military charities for homeless soldiers and drop coins in RNLI boxes. Cover all bases.

I am another one who also commemorates remembrance day and has been part of the parades for many years of my life.

I agree the government should provide support but also those who join up should, like a lot of others do, plan for the future as well. They do have some responsibility as well.

Lots of people have to live in certain places due to jobs - lots of industries are like that.

There are also lots of other things the government should provide for but don't, these things can affect all walks of life and often the people concerned have no choice in the matter - I just hate how the media/social media portrays veterans as the only ones who are treated poorly - when most people do have a choice in joining up.

I just hate how the media/social media portrays veterans as the only ones who are treated poorly

That's not true.

Noodle - yes they have a choice to sign up, like a teacher has the choice to teach, a banker to bank etc. The difference is the sacrifices they willingly make in order to do their job. Lots of people make sacrifices in their job but not many involve being sent across the world with the high chance of dying in the line of duty. Yes... You'll come back to me and say "they signed up for that", yes, they signed up to fight, of course they did. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve support and recognition.