Why do people join the army....? and why should we honour them?

[LittleRedSparke]

Ok - i have my tin hat at the ready, and am ready to be flamed.....

This is genuine (i post a bit so you can see this is not my first and i havent nc'd)

First off - I appreciate those who fight for the rights of my country.... but I am not sure why we should raise them to a 'god-like' status, like you see on facebook etc

Yes, they're doing a good job - but no one forces them to do it, as far as I know (prepared to be told i am wrong of course) they join up of their own free will? I read 'how wonderful they are, and how they only do it because of some saint like calling they have'

I dont mean to offend anyone - but I have a friend who is ex-forces, and on occasion he mentions stuff about forces being let down by the government - even though he wasnt there for long, only joined up as he didnt have anywhere to live and no prospects, he's come out - and now has no prospects and has some kind of (non army related) injury, and I just got to thinking.....

Just out of interest how do we feel about soldiers holding the fort while Firefighters paid better than the lower ranks strike for better pay? Only the soldiers are not allowed, in law, to strike. And they use antiquated equipment rather than state of the art stuff.

Front line guys risking their lives to save ungrateful whingers from fire.

And that a lot of them had leave cancelled so that they could be part of the security at the olympics? Filling in because no-one had worked out how to do it until the last minute and the civilian agencies didn't have the people.

The army does a lot. The other forces, likewise do extras that people seem to take for granted.

dontask that's your perogative. I am neither ignorant or looking for a fight.

I live in a country that is neutral and I am grateful for that. I don't and won't ever agree with war, the military, invading countries and killing to innocent people.

I appreciate your view is coloured because your family is involved in the military. I have an American cousin who is beyond brainwashed, everyone she knows is involved with the American military..

What I was wondering was

Do they join up to save others joining up?
Do they join up because they feel it's the best option for them?

dontaskdonttell
Im sorry to you and anyone else if you feel people are being personal or goady - I started this conversation so feel responsible.

I think we need to value our people in all walks of life, especially those who do the shitty jobs so we don't have to!

I had thought of joining up, for me? It was the thought of a career, training.and something to do with flying really - but life etc had other plans

As a nurse (been punched a few times, and threatened with a knife, but that's what I signed up for after all) I've sat in the WO and Sgts mess a few time at the end of an evening with some poor drunk soul telling me some ghastly story, usually of when they went in to rescue someone, or deal with the aftermath of atrocities who clearly have borderline PTSD but at a level where no-one worries because they all have it.

Listen to those stories and then tell me these men are blood-thirsty monsters. The ones who cry because they were too late to save children in a Bosnian village. What villains they are.

Note: I wasn't a military nurse, but being a nurse married to a soldier I ended up ad hoc drunk counselling.

ego the Irish army manage to function without killing anyone. Their work is peacekeeping.. helping the innocent in war torn countries.

littlered I'm certainly not being goady. I have an opinion that's it..

"There was so much of Duncan Crookson missingthat he didn't seem real. His was half a body propped up in a full sized bed, seemingly bolted into place. He couldn't move because he had nothing left with which to push himself ito motion except for a bit of arm that was immobilised in bandages, and he couldn't speak because of the tracheotomy tube that had been inserted into his throat. Every part of him was taped and bandaged because of burns and infections, except for his cheeks, which remained reddened from burns, his mouth, which hung open and misshapen, and his wyes, which were covered by goggles that produced their own moisture, resulting in water droplets on the inside through which he veiwed whatever came into his line of sight"

Corporal Duncan Crookson was blown up by an IED in 2007. He died on the eve of his 20th birthday. Duncan was a young lad who would have run through the gates of hell on your behalf had he been asked. And no doubt some of you will point out that he died fighting in an 'illegal' (although not unethical) war. Well, you have a choice. You can have armed forces that do what they're told, or armed forces that do what they want. I know which I'd prefer. And if the thought of someone dying in your name on behalf of Tony Blair or G W Bush sickens you, then maybe Duncan's grandfather met the same fate fighting fascism, or an equally sickening Japanese regime.

Personally, I just give em the benefit of the doubt and pay my respect.

It is really quite simple, if nobody joined the forces and the shit hit the fan who would defend us?
Ok so at present nobody is flying over dropping bombs but you never know what may happen.
When russian planes quite frequently fly in our airspace the RAF are up there in seconds.
We should have respect for those who died for this Country as it would be a very different place if they hadn't.
Who helped those who were flooded a couple of years back, yep the services. Who goes out and rescues people when they get into difficulties out at sea. Yep the air sea resue guys of the RAF along with the RNLI volunteers.
The first aim of any government is to defend the Country, but we need soldiers sailors and airmen to do so.

lucybabs you are trained to protect yourself and others. You are wrong in using the word murderer....military personnel aren't trained to be murderers.
Your posts are so offensive, they aren't really worth replying to.
If you think solder is are just out into conflict zones, willy nilly, to murder people, you're mad.

My husband has never mentioned being trained to kill. He is trained in combat defence and yes, whilst they know how to kill if necessary, a large majority of today's serving personnel will not have killed anybody.
On tour, they do what they have to to retain their position and yes, sometimes, people do die but our Brotish Forces are a force for good: peacekeepers.

I live in a country that is neutral and I am grateful for that.

'Neutral' countries tend to rely on other countries when the need arises.

Often 'neutral' is also code for 'turns a blind eye'.

DS1 said at 7 he was going to be a soldier. Despite being his school's top performing boy at GCSE, gaining all A*s and As (some at 100%) and AAB at A level, he decided that he was joining the Army as a soldier rather than going to uni. He did this because he was set on joining the army, he thought about uni then Sandhurst but would have joined the army if he hadn't have got into Sandhurst so didn't want the debt.

He loves the army. I've never see him so happy or so confident. He has exceeded our expectations and his own. The seniors in his troop are over the moon with him, he helps the other lads who are the same rank as him but less confident, he's a team player and a really good soldier. He'll be in the army for as long as they will have him. It's just what he was meant to do.

What I was wondering was

Do they join up to save others joining up? Do they join up because they feel it's the best option for them?

Not sure that there's any one answer to this. With the disclaimer that I don't actually know any forces members very well, I'd imagine the reasons for people joining up are far and varied, given that they're not a monolith.

Some posts talk about "standing up for our rights" and "defending our country". What rights are those, and defending from who, exactly? "Giving their lives for our freedom"...what threat to your freedom has there been, exactly, within your lifetime, that the military has affected at all?
It's all very vague, no substance to these claims.

I don't support the poppy or remembrance sunday, one reason being that as here, all conflicts/wars/military engagements are lumped in together as if they are equal. As if the millions conscripted to be used as cannon fodder in the Great War should be remembered in the same way as those who chose to go and fight in a desert over oil? Or as if the fight against nazism was on the same level as mythical weapons of mass destruction and bombing civilians.

As a housing worker and SS worker I have been threatened and very mildly assaulted. I have feared for my safety. I've seen many people beaten, one almost to death (the person concerned succeeded in killing the next person). I have seen people overdose. I have had clients die.

I bet you can count on one hand the number of times you've been genuinely in fear for your life, or the life of your colleagues, friends and people you've lived with. I bet you've never been responsible for sending 20 of you're employees on a patrol which killed 7 of them and I bet you've never had to order the shooting of a 6 year old child in a suicide vest to save the lives of grown men.

I'm not denying nursing/social working is tough, but come on, it is in no way comparable to the horrors faced by the armed forces.

Being neutral is not turning a blind eye. I for one am happy we weren't involved in the fake weapons of mass destruction fiasco. The Irish army are peace keepers, basically mopping up the shit the Americans and British have created.

Local warlords What?! Unless you mean the British army occupying Ireland for far too many years?

Yes Bosnia, ego What's your point exactly?

It's not the same as invading a country on orders from your government under disguise of weapons of mass destruction.

Ireland tried to defend itself against British rule unfortunately a lot of Irish people died.

Defending your country against actual terrorist attacks really isn't the same as invading a country for made up reasons. When really its about power and money

The Irish Defence Forces are among the most experienced peace-keepers in the world. They are constantly in demand by the UN and have served in theatres in Europe, Africa, East Asia and Middle East - in fact they have been peacekeepers in Lebanon since at least the early 90s.

Plenty of 'point' them bring there.

As if the millions conscripted to be used as cannon fodder in the Great War should be remembered in the same way as those who chose to go and fight in a desert over oil?

They're the same person. The person that does what they're told, regardless. because as a soldier, you don't pick and choose, you don't whine. You just bloody do it, so that others can get on with their fucking lives.