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Original poster

Why do people join the army....? and why should we honour them?

281 replies

LittleRedSparke · 16/10/2015 19:19

Ok - i have my tin hat at the ready, and am ready to be flamed.....

This is genuine (i post a bit so you can see this is not my first and i havent nc'd)

First off - I appreciate those who fight for the rights of my country.... but I am not sure why we should raise them to a 'god-like' status, like you see on facebook etc

Yes, they're doing a good job - but no one forces them to do it, as far as I know (prepared to be told i am wrong of course) they join up of their own free will? I read 'how wonderful they are, and how they only do it because of some saint like calling they have'

I dont mean to offend anyone - but I have a friend who is ex-forces, and on occasion he mentions stuff about forces being let down by the government - even though he wasnt there for long, only joined up as he didnt have anywhere to live and no prospects, he's come out - and now has no prospects and has some kind of (non army related) injury, and I just got to thinking.....

OP posts:
WheresPoIIy · 17/10/2015 14:51

It amuses me because people are conpletely convinced they are right, when there is an awful lot they don't know.

Is that really so hard to understand? Hmm

Come on now.

howtorebuild · 17/10/2015 15:25

Do you know what ex British Army black and tans did to innocent Irish citizens?

AliceTerrapin · 17/10/2015 15:42

It doesn't amuse me. It depresses me that there hundreds of thousands of British people who rely on their press and Google to make them think they are the highest authority on things and be so effing smug. Never mind the opinions of those of us you invaded. No, because you genuinely believe that the UK does things to liberate a few million women. It's bollocks. If you all care so much why don't you invade those African nations who mutilate and abuse girls. Why don't you invade China, they are pretty dreadful. The fact is that anyone can read the Guardian, live in a suburban semi and think they are superior but sadly it shows how so many women try to sound clever and worldly and just sound bloody silly.

Want2bSupermum · 17/10/2015 16:00

Oh and my brother joined because he wanted to be able to carry on with his hobby, shooting. If he had not been on duty he would have gone to the Olympics and has decided to leave the army after 20 years of service so he can offer his wife the opportunity to grow her career and try for the next Olympics.

The accomodation offered by the army is a joke. As are the pay rates. With the amount of moving around it is extremely difficult for the spouse to maintain an income, especially if there are children involved. I think the pay should be doubled to recognize the spouse is giving up on their career. In my brothers case my future SIL is a lawyer making a good salary. She can't make any progress if moving around every 2 years.

TheFairyCaravan · 17/10/2015 16:24

I do see your point actually and I suppose you'd be unlikely to tell your boss's wife you didn't support the charity she was fundraising for!

You wear his ring, love, not his rank!Hmm

You don't have a clue what rank my DH is, who he is, or where he works. But I can tell you one thing I don't have to support anything just because some Group Captain's wife thinks it's a good idea!

merrymouse · 17/10/2015 16:33

No, because you genuinely believe that the UK does things to liberate a few million women

Who said that?

WheresPoIIy · 17/10/2015 16:51

I don't wear anyone's rank given I have my own career Confused.

I wouldn't tell my own bosses wife I didn't agree with something she was doing, even if I thought she was wrong, common sense isn't it? I'm not saying everyone has to support the same things as me, or even pretend they do, far from it! I'm empathising with the fact that a lot of people won't want to openly disagree with their boss and his wife, thus why I might not have the full facts on people's opinions!

Your DH may well be senior to mine, i don't give a rats arse, this wasn't a pissing contest about seniority Hmm

Scremersford · 17/10/2015 17:00

Alice It depresses me that there hundreds of thousands of British people who rely on their press and Google to make them think they are the highest authority on things and be so effing smug. Never mind the opinions of those of us you invaded. No, because you genuinely believe that the UK does things to liberate a few million women.

That's a lot of hatred you have there. Having lived in quite a few countries, I have to say theres something for the British way of doing things. And the traditions which are originally based on military ways of doing things and military discipline have certainly got something going for them.

When I lived in Holland for instance, lovely country, lovely people, but an awful lot of the men are very effete. The British did liberate them in the war, and their own military defence didn't last very long, in the little part of the Ardennes where it was active. Some European countries don't have very strong armies right now, so if its not beyond the realms of possibility that they were invaded, its not beyond imagination that the British might have to liberate them again.

Egosumquisum · 17/10/2015 17:01

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Egosumquisum · 17/10/2015 17:04

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ottothedog · 17/10/2015 17:13

Ah i see, you mean like the iraqi weapons of mass destruction thing? Stupid people. Clever politicians and military

Scremersford · 17/10/2015 17:14

Ego I'm really shocked at the ignorance some posters have displayed of history in WW2 involving our closest European neighbours. A couple of them have made neutrality sound like some form of happy collaboration with the Nazis. In actual fact, even those Dutch who weren't Jews were starved. So many deaths due to starvation during Nazi occupation, people digging out half ripe potatoes from the ground and risking stomach problems just to feel something in their bellies, people eating weeds (if they could find them), and so on.

Norway -hardly a happy example of happy neutrality. One example - the only railway that goes north of the main centre of population in Norway was built by Soviet prisoners of war in WW2 in appalling conditions. So many died.

How can people not know about these facts and the process of liberation, and make fun of it? Some of our grandfathers risked their lives in the name of liberation, and many, many people still remember it from those countries and still express their gratitude.

Egosumquisum · 17/10/2015 17:33

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Scremersford · 17/10/2015 17:39

Mind you, neutrality must have worked reasonably well for those Swedes who didn't emigrate to the States from provinces like Dalarna in the period after WW2. A lot of businesses were able to establish their modern day success (bit like Switzerland in that regard). In fact, isn't neutral Sweden one of the biggest providers of Nato bases?

In fact, neutrality in the Wars served Norway and Denmark so well that their poor had to emigrate to parts of the US in such numbers that there are still vast areas of their descendants where their languages are just dying out. There was a programme about in on Danish tv not that long ago.

ottothedog · 17/10/2015 17:47

Wonder what military and political genius led to afghanistan being seen as ever being 'winnable' by any definition
Anyone with more than a passing knowledge of history could have predicted that outcome. But laugh away.

merrymouse · 17/10/2015 18:03

but an awful lot of the men are very effete.

ConfusedConfusedConfused

Wtf?

AgentCooper · 17/10/2015 18:25

My DSis has zero respect for the military and thinks if you make your bed you should lie in it. In some ways, I understand that but the guys I know who joined the army really didn't have better prospects. And I would not want to see the things they saw.

My pal's ex-H was really traumatised in Kosovo and developed drug problems when he returned, hence why they're no longer married. He killed people, saw people killed, including young children. My pal at work's DH was in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan and also saw terrible things but is happy and healthy. I guess you just don't know how you'll cope, but the first guy - his life was ruined by being in the army. It really was.

I don't hail people in the military as heroes but I sure as hell think they deserve proper support and help with coping emotionally with the things they experience and with integrating back into 'normal' life.

MadgeMidgerson · 17/10/2015 18:36

This thread is mad

I am trying to work out what 'men in Holland seem effete' could possibly mean in the context of the Second World War and nazi occupation

Perhaps the poster could return and clarify

IrishDad79 · 17/10/2015 19:44

Egosumquisum
"I am glad the UK and its Allies took a side in WW2 and helped liberate Europe from a regime like the Nazis."
_

Why did the UK ally herself with a monster like Josef Stalin, if she were so concerned about evil regimes in Europe? Stalin murdered more people than Hitler did. The western allies effectively gave Stalin a blank cheque to subjugate eastern Europe to Soviet rule for the next 50 years. Were the people Stalin murdered lesser human beings than Hitler's victims? Why did the UK pick-and-choose the evil regimes she would either fight against or align herself with?

Egosumquisum · 17/10/2015 19:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

merrymouse · 17/10/2015 19:47

So that Hitler wouldn't invade Britain?

Egosumquisum · 17/10/2015 19:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Egosumquisum · 17/10/2015 19:54

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IrishDad79 · 17/10/2015 20:49

Egosumquisum
"Russia was also not threatening the UK. The occupation of Europe by Germany would have been a major threat to the UK"
__

So, the UK wasn't really motivated by a noble desire to free Europe from an evil regime, but rather by the (understandable) desire to protect her own national interests?

This is the way with all wars. Countries wage the wars they think they can fight, and avoid the wars they know they can't (which is why Stalin got a free pass in eastern Europe from the UK/US).

IrishDad79 · 17/10/2015 20:49

Egosumquisum
"Russia was also not threatening the UK. The occupation of Europe by Germany would have been a major threat to the UK"
__

So, the UK wasn't really motivated by a noble desire to free Europe from an evil regime, but rather by the (understandable) desire to protect her own national interests?

This is the way with all wars. Countries wage the wars they think they can fight, and avoid the wars they know they can't (which is why Stalin got a free pass in eastern Europe from the UK/US).