Why do people join the army....? and why should we honour them?

[LittleRedSparke]

Ok - i have my tin hat at the ready, and am ready to be flamed.....

This is genuine (i post a bit so you can see this is not my first and i havent nc'd)

First off - I appreciate those who fight for the rights of my country.... but I am not sure why we should raise them to a 'god-like' status, like you see on facebook etc

Yes, they're doing a good job - but no one forces them to do it, as far as I know (prepared to be told i am wrong of course) they join up of their own free will? I read 'how wonderful they are, and how they only do it because of some saint like calling they have'

I dont mean to offend anyone - but I have a friend who is ex-forces, and on occasion he mentions stuff about forces being let down by the government - even though he wasnt there for long, only joined up as he didnt have anywhere to live and no prospects, he's come out - and now has no prospects and has some kind of (non army related) injury, and I just got to thinking.....

My late husband joined because he wanted to do his bit to protect other people and he did a bloody good job doing so.

He didn't have to,he was not in a position where he needed to work.

Surlycue everyone does. That and 'did you kill anyone', 'did anyone you know die' are very common, so I hear (on very good authority).

why do they stay - well lower ranks who aren't officers usually don't have any qualifications, have become dependent upon their very structured, controlled lives of the forces, what would they do in civvie street.

If my DH hadn't been married to me when he left, I have no doubt he be homeless and without a job. He struggled to adjust, no one understood his PTSD but his military friends, he felt utterly isolated after leaving. Had no formal qualifications other then in house military ones which mean nothing in civvie street. It took me and his mum two years of hell helping him cope and adjust.

I don't hero worship the armed forces, I do respect their statues as such just like police and firmmen.

when you sat holding you husband every night for months after another horrific nightmare of what he's seen, then you appreciate the sacrifices he made.

The other side of the low pay coin is the provision of subsidised housing and training which can allow you to walk straight into a good job in civilian life. My cousin, who has been in the army for about 10 years, was able to save enough (admittedly also using his wife's wages) to put down the deposit on a house and cover the mortgage; he reckoned that wouldn't have been possible had he not joined up.

purple i am very involved with the transition process, helping ex-forces "translate' their military skills into something that civvies recognise. There is a big push in getting civvy businesses to see the value in recruiting ex-forces personnel.

I have similar feelings OP - but often feel I am unable to voice them.

I was discussing this whilst watching DIY SOS on Wednesday this week - I agree ex service personnel who have been injured should receive support, but I think the services fail their personnel badly by not educating them on preparing for life after service from the very beginning. Whether that is educating them in financial planning for those years, saving for housing etc or planning for a future career.

I do know of a number of personnel who have made a success of a second career having left the services - and one of them had 2 years in a rehabilitation centre after some scary injuries, at one point they thought he would be paralysed for life, but in that time decided to work on the plan for the rest of his life and started a degree, went on to complete a phd as well. I guess we are just painted a picture they are all left to rot which is not always the case.

These threads pop up every year,and I do find them offensive. Usually written by people who have absolutely no exposure or experience dealing with the military.
Maybe go off and educate yourself somewhere other than Facebook op,why can't people who don't support remembrance Sunday just switch over?There is no one forcing you to take part,I really wish those that don't agree could just keep it to themselves,Its an emotive time for many families not just veterans from the two world wars.
I view it the same way as a funeral,in that what ever your thoughts are on it ,sometimes its better to just let those who want to remember get on with it with trying to upset someone.

Omg OP I completely agree with you!!
You cannot say anything like that in public these days though

unfortunatley I don't think it's just GW1 MrsDevre, which had given Service people cancer. My Dd's partner was in the army , he knows 4 people who fought in Iraq. they died of very aggressive cancers which are uncommon in young people.

My DD's partner has also seen things which no human should see or experience, I could tell you about them OP but I wouldn't want to write them down. Anyway, you really can't know many service people OP, or you wouldn't be asking such crass questions.

YABVVU

I'm ex military. I have never met any service men or women that consider themselves God-like. This whole "heroes" thing seems to be a concept dreamed up by the Sun, and Help for Heroes rides off the back of that concept. It is not run by the military although they benefit, which is in itself disappointing because the government should look after its service personnel rather than them having to rely on charities.

Some of the actions carried out by service personnel are heroic. Many are routine and mundane. Much of the public seems to think that all service personnel are soldiers which irritates me - they seem to forget the RAF, RM and RN. They also seem to forget the huge amount of humanitarian work that the armed forces do. My ex husband didn't make it home for Xmas as his ship was rerouted to the Philippines after the typhoons the week before he was due home. Friends have assisted with disaster relief, the Ebola crisis, the foot and mouth epidemic, the firefighters strike, the West Country flood disasters, the Olympic security. I remember the calls for the army when there were the London riots a few years back.

Most join the Forces to gain a trade, travel the world, earn a few quid and make some good mates. In doing so they risk their relationships, their stability, their safety and their lives. Be thankful they offer to join so you don't have to.

noodlemakes a good point about how many veterans transition successfully, but the media would have you think differently. According to the media, most veterans are "mad, sad and bad". Huge numbers of them in prison....
In fact, of the prison population in Scotland ,2% are Veterans. Which means a whopping 98% are civilians.

The other side of the low pay coin is the provision of subsidised housing

Have you seen some of the houses that the armed forces are expected to live in? Too damn right they are subsidised! Many, many of the houses are riddled with damp, they have substandard heating systems, some have kitchens and bathrooms from the 1970s. The service person is listed as a license holder, not a tenant, so they have no rights. But panic not, the houses are all being surveryed so they can be regarded just in time for the rents to increase!

Not all military personel walk into a well paid civilian job either, hence the amount that sleep on the streets. Training isn't a given and the service person has to pay towards the courses too.

I think there are a tiny minority of people who seem to believe that a life in the military automatically confers some sort of hero status upon those who choose it.

I think it's just like any other profession. It's made up of humans and therefore they will have myriad reasons for being there (familial tradition, escape, opportunity, lack of choice, childhood dream and on and on and on) and as humans, most are probably inherently good, some will be total cocks and plenty will be delightful shades of grey. Same as in any other profession. The job itself is pretty peculiar and I have an appreciation of that fact though I don't believe the job itself tells me anything at all about an individual doing it. Most military folk I know are normal, good people. I know two who are utter wazzocks and only joined up because they are running away, in many senses of the word. They'll run away from that responsibility eventually too.

There is a portrayal, aided by the media, of these sorts of jobs and it changes based upon many political or financial considerations, the intended audience and the desired effect they're hoping to achieve. DH is a copper and some people believe this automatically makes him a morally bankrupt wanker. He isn't of course. He's just normal. I don't attach any great moral value to who he is solely because of his profession.

My stepdad is ex forces & definitely no hero - abusive alcoholic more like. And no, that isn't due to the horror he's seen - he was on the subs & saw fuck all conflict. I've suffered far worse & don't think that gives me the right to act like a bullying shit.

Being in the forces does not equal hero - often far from it in my experience (I grew up in a town with a major navel base & consequently much exposure to meat headed squaddie types).

"The other side of the low pay coin is the provision of subsidised housing"

It's subsidised only in the same sense that council housing is subsidised. A bit less expensive than market rents, but not necessarily cheap. And usually in far worse nick than anything owbpned by a council or a HA.

surly because we were talking about his life as friends do and I was trusting him with some painful memories of mine and asked him in return. He trusts me and it helps him to talk sometimes although I know there are some memories that he will never share and that's OK. He just smiles ruefully and says "not for discussion, demented" and we move on.

Ahh fair enough it just seemed an odd thing to ask.

But surely every good person with morals is a pacifist redannie?
However, if it hadn't have been for the British and allied forces, you'd be speaking German right now.

The modern military really isn't a war fighting machine: it's a peace keeping body of men and women who are paid 24 hrs a day, 365 days a year.

So unlike doctors and nurses (for whom I do have great admiration), the armed forces employment structure varies greatly. They are told when to work, when to take leave and where they, and their dependants, will reside. No doctor or nurse has to move where the NHS tells them.

People are hero worshipping.....they are showing respect to people who, unlike many civvies given the same situation, go over and above their employed requirement to ensure the people of the UK stay safe.

But unlike those people calling them heroes, they are humble, and don't think themselves heroes....in their own eyes, they are just doing their job. And it's not everyday you face the prospect of being sent to a war zone for six months, sent on exercise for weeks on end or moved across the country from East Anglia to the north of Scotland when, in your posting preferences you asked to be in Somerset.

I know this because I'm the wife of an ex serviceman. He joined for his love of engineering, for the adventurous training, for the team work, for the chance to travel but most of all, to serve his Queen and country.....a job he undertook with courage and pride and one which he felt was worthwhile.

Oh and the wages (no matter what rank you reach) are never positively comparable to civvie street.

OK surly. We were actually talking about child hood memories at the time, but he gave me the response above. Poor man. Needless to say, I didn't press for further information!

Not sure anything OP has said could be construed as being offensive vintagebeads, she was merely enquiring.
The fact you're implying you cannot even question things like this only adds to the pervasive atmosphere that critiquing the military is not tolerated in this country these days.
I agree with her. But I will still observe 11th November to remember those who died when they had no choice but to sign up.

Be thankful they offer to join so you don't have to.

Sure. But for the same reasons I am thankful to sewage workers, rubbish collectors, prison warders, policemen, firefighters, and members of several other occupations I know I would either hate to join or would be utterly incompetent at, a number of those being occupations that also carry a substantial risk. And just maybe they're thankful that they don't do my job.