Mortgage dispute dp/me

[Haribogirl]

Dp and I took bought property 13 years ago for £160.000
I put deposit down of 80.000 he got mortgage for his 80.000( with both names on it, as he would of been able to get this much on his own)

So 13 years on and he's had a brain wave, he now decided that because of the interested he's had to pay for getting the mortgage that he's actually paying more than me!!
My argument is he must of known that interest was added in the first place and it's not up to me to now start paying it.

He won't it so that
He as added his mortgage payments up for the last 13 years which amount to £79400.
So when he reaches 80k(same as I put in at beginning) he then wants me to start paying half the mortgage.
Also at the beginning in solicitors, solicitor advised me to make a deed of trust to guard my 80k in the event of anything happening in the future.

He doesn't agree with this now! As he realised that in event off I would get this and half the equity we make, he thinks all off a sudden I'm ripping him off.

This is only in the event off!! Which I have mentioned.

I feel I've just protected myself as advised, he now thinks I'm ripping him off

i know he could have got the same info as you from anyone , but just in case he got it from mn, maybe it;s a good idea to change all your passwords on everything . I bet he knows them and is accessing your communications.

If you're definitely decided that the relationship is over perhaps its time to wander over to the legal boards and see if anyone can make any suggestions.

If he has been getting the same sort of information as you, then surely it is time for you both to admit that it isn't working, you need to call it a day and then find the best way to move forward. I admit that will be very difficult due to his extreme grabbiness. I didn't realise he was asking you for 13 years worth of mortgage payments! Thats ridiculous!

Can you get your name taken off the mortgage? He could stop paying and you will be liable for repayments as well then.

Op, I haven't read the most recent comments, but in response to your 20.46 post last night, I didn't say your 80k would be worth 117k in a high interest bank account, it would be worth that just at the rate of inflation. Tell him to look up the time value of money and look at historical figures for the retail price index over the last thirteen year, as that gives £118k just based on basic inflation. A bank account would only have to have paid 3% interest on average over the period to make that much now- that would not have been high interest 13 years ago when the bank of England base rate was over 5% and hit 5.75% a few times. You could easily have had it invested at 6% for the first 7 years until rates finally fell in 2009. The power of compound interest means that the high interest rates in the early years would have made your capital rise quickly, to 120k in 2009. Even if you had made no interest after that ( and clearly you would have made a couple of percent even after rates dropped) you had already passed that conservative estimate back in 2009.

So no, not in your opinion, in actual conservative and verifiable fact. The bank of England base rates over the period are available on the internet, just like the RPI rates.

In my opinion, had you actually had it invested in a high interest account it could have been worth much more than that. Just tell him no, not in your opinion, in publically verifiable fact! And not in a high interest account, just at the rate of inflation.

Really, is he financially illiterate, or just taking the mick here? 13 years ago someone else lent him £80k and he has had to pay them £36k for the privilege of borrowing it for that time, even though he has been repaying it gradually so that interest is not for borrowing the whole 80k for that time. Is it not therefore blatantly obvious to any vaguely reasonable person that if you had lent £80k to the bank/investment over the same period, that you would expect to have received at least the same £36k in interest, especially given you would have invested the full £80k for the full 13 years, compared to his reducing balance mortgage?!

Sorry for that rant, I am really angry with him on your behalf!

Hi OP I am going to be guilty of reading the main posts only here sorry I am resting before night shift but wrt the mortgage

He chose how to pay his half . He presumably thought there was some advantage by taking out the mortgage ie preserving capital for other things.

He has to pay the interest on his mortgage entirely himself no question. He is just trying to have his cake and eat it.

Op, can you answer one question for me: There have been comments some by me, I am sure calling him stupid, but is it that he doesn't understand the maths etc here, or does he understand perfectly and is just trying to get one over on you? Does he have a good grasp of maths, economics, finance etc? Or does he really think his £79k of mostly interest payments is equal to your 13year old investment?

It would help to know where he is coming from in order to try and give you some info to make him see sense. If you think he just doesn't get it I can give you some ridiculously simplistic explanations to pass onto him so he sees the error of his ways.and refer you to published historic inflation/interest rates. If, however, he already knows he is wrong and is just trying his luck or is annoyed about separate issues (eg unfair DOT or thinking he has raised your son) but trying to get even via a different route, then there is not much point reasoning with him, or trying to educate him. Although, third pov, if he thinks you don't understand and he can get one over on you while he is scheming, then it might help to demonstrate that you understand the concepts/issues/ways in which he is wrong, as he might take you more seriously.

Oh and, I wouldn't worry about the cost of the legal battle. Yes it is a pain. Yes, you would rather not have to, but there is a lot of money at stake here and as things stand it is to your advantage. The figures I calculated at the weekend showed a £58k range between the most you would get from the house sale(if the DOT gave you £80k +50% of the rest and he had to pay off the mortgage) and the amount he wanted you to end up with with he demands that you pay off half the mortgage and give up the DOT and split all the house 50:50.

£58k. Not saying you would end up getting the very top figure, it is more likely to be somewhere in the middle, but you have everything to win by standing your ground as the DOT is in your favour, even you do have to waste money going to court.

Although some legal fights will cost £20k and you don't get all your costs back from your partner if you win a legal fight so be careful before rushing to court.

OP.

I'm a family law solicitor. There is no dispute here. There is no basis in law why you should deviate from the DoT. There is therefore nothing to negotiate.

If he won't:

1. Agree to market the house for sale at a reasonable agreed price.
2. Confirm that the proceeds of sale will be divided as per the DoT

you really need to get it in to court. You will get most if not all of your costs back - easy enough to enforce when you take it out of his share of the proceeds of sale.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you to reach a compromise with him unless you appreciate that the only thing you're paying for is avoiding a court dispute - you're not paying to avoid the risk of losing, as there's no way on earth you'd lose such an application.

That is really good to read collaborate. How's it going op?

What Collaborate said.

And:
The OP put in £80k, her P put in £80k, which he had to borrow.

It cost the OP the interest she would have made on the £80k had she invested it elsewhere for 13 years
It cost her P the interest it cost to borrow his £80k contribution.

His mortgage payments have included the repayment of £80k and his interest to borrow that money.

Only if there was capital to repay beyond his £80k would it be right for the OP to start contributing to the mortgage, but there isn't additional capital to pay: the house cost £160k - a straight £80k each. Why should the OP pay £80k cash PLUS the interest on him borrowing his £80k?

His knee jerk response is that the situation wrt the property they jointly own is unfair
She started out in a more favorable position she had 80k capital, he had nothing, I suspect that his displeasure stems from resentment that she started out with an advantage and she has retained that advantage

Perhaps he feels that in forming a partnership with her things should have been shared out so that he gained and she lost? ?

He is either not particularly bright and genuinely doesn't understand or he is trying to get one over on you. Only you and those that know you in real life know the answer to this. If you think that he just doesn't get it, perhaps it would help to speak to someone who can explain it to him.

Brenda the DoT doesn't give a 50:50 split. It protects the Op's £80k first and then gives her half the residual. The complication to enforcing the legal documents is that it is a joint mortgage which Op has not contributed to paying off to date. Going by the strict letter I think there is a legal argument that she is liable for the remaining 50% of the mortgage if she wants to claim to the letter of the DoT assuming the paper trail of mortgage payments can be proved.

howabout - no there is no such legal argument. Unless you mean both should pay half of all future mortgage instalments. OP is not liable to repay the balance of the mortgage on her own. It all starts and ends with the deed of trust. OP gets the first £80k, the balance gets applied firstly to the mortgage, and the rest is shared equally.

However they agreed pre-separation to repay the mortgage does not affect the final split of proceeds of sale.

Sorry for the quietness, I've been really off with ibs problems and feel really rough.

Anyway so far
DP came to me Friday to say can we stop all this no talking!!
To which I mentioned it was he who started this all, me telling him that there's no way I'm paying his mortgage.
To which I got don't speak to me again ok.

I went over some off the things that I've picked up from this thread(thank you ladies)
He was still saying we both owed 50/50 of the house, to which I pointed out that HE actually owes 25% I owe 50% and the building society owes 25%.
I got what you talking about, so I explained he still owes mortgage so he doesn't owe 50%!!
He wanted to take me for lunch!! But I had plans anyway and wasn't changing them for him all of a sudden.

I think I managed to get MY point of view over to him, without him walking away or shouting back!!! The first. I told him to sit and take time to think over what we just talked about.

The thing now is, if I stay can I trust him to not say/do something else few years down the line?
Plus I don't really know if I actually can carry on living with him, or wether I what to anymore
I think over the last 18 mths, I tried numerous times in depth to try and discuss our relationship/money, that now I don't think I can even be bothered discussing it(is that bad of me)

Haribogirl, your perception of the relationship has been understandably changed by this fiasco (is that a bit melodramatic? I hope/think not). If you want to continue the relationship maybe you have to sell the current house and go 50/50 in another house. That might get a bit curly if you have any emotional attachment to the current house. It's a toughie but basically you have to be able to look at him and say yes, I want you (and trust you enough) to be the one administering my meds when I'm old and frail and have to rely on you. Or yeah, nah I don't think so.

It would be something to recover from feeling like your partner is trying to cheat you out of substantial sums. He feels it (wrongly) as do you (correctly).

At least you're talking.

If the deed of trust says he pays the mortgage or that was your agreement after it was entered into and you can prove it then i agree with Coll that he cannot now change that deal and claim back mortgage payments.
If he wants you to start paying half the joint mortgage then whether he can make you depends on what your agreement with him is over them ortgage payments. Howevber if he stopped paying although you could sue him for that and take as Coll says anything he owes you out of his share of the property, you are still liable to the lender as you are jointly on the mortgage so if say house prices halved (very unlikely) and he disappeared then your obligation on the mortgage to pay all of it would remain.

Do you want to be with him? That is not really to do with the money side. Do you love him? Does he make your life better? If being with him the only way you and your adult son can be in such a nice house and you would not want to lose that to move somewhere smaller?

(I don't think always, certainly not in my cases, someone who wins a court case gets most of their costs back. You might get two thirds and sometimes a bit more but sometimes that third is more than the sum people are fighting over so do try and avoid course as much as you can.

Can you recover from all his 'don't speak to me'?

I agree with grazia that the real question is whether you want to continue your relationship with your DP Op.
Your most recent post sets out very straightforwardly what looks like a sensible view of the current position and would make a good basis for an amicable discussion on changing arrangements going forward whether you stay together or split up.

"The thing now is, if I stay can I trust him to not say/do something else few years down the line?
Plus I don't really know if I actually can carry on living with him, or wether I what to anymore
I think over the last 18 mths, I tried numerous times in depth to try and discuss our relationship/money, that now I don't think I can even be bothered discussing it(is that bad of me)"

No, I don't think it's bad of you at all. You've had enough of being bullied by him. If you want to end the relationship, you're perfectly entitled to do so.

to put it simply - no, you cannot trust him.

he always knew he had to pay the entire of the mortgage HE took out using your name - but he recently has chosen to try and manipulate YOU into paying HIS debt. You can't trust someone who will deliberately play you for a fool, go back on his word or try using legal terminology to make you pay for something that was HIS idea and deal.

He has chosen to keep ALL his big payouts to himself instead of clearing HIS mortgage - he has no interest in building a secure and happy future with you. Not one that is equal anyway.

He treats your son like an outsider and resents him. He bullies and gaslights you, breaks his promises when it suits him, lies to you, manipulates you and takes the piss out of you.

What exactly is there here that makes you want to stay? Love has to stop somewhere short of suicide and now that you've seen just how underhand and mean he is and can be - are you sure you're still 'in love' with him?

This experience has shown you that the only person you can truly trust to look after your best interests is yourself. my advice is to get rid of him and start a fresh chapter in your life, you may feel scared at the thought of it right now but you are not 'too old' and there is still plenty of life in you yet to experience the happiness and joy that can be found in life.