To tell my sister if she buys a Staffie I won't bring DS around to hers?

[Annarose2014]

I suspect I am. I've heard so much about them being amazing, wonderful Nanny dogs.....

But I've also heard of a lot of attacks. I'm desperately afraid of them, truth be told. I don't trust them. Especially as the dog wouldn't live with DS, but only see him about once a week so its not like DS would be "his" charge.

Sister has wanted one for years and is bitterly disappointed as this is the year she's finally in a position to buy a dog.

But in fairness I just said that she could certainly get one, but would have to see DS elsewhere other than her place as I wouldn't be comfortable with DS in an enclosed area with one in case DS did something wrong and the dog felt threatened and we wouldn't be fast enough to stop something happening.

AIBU?

I think YABU a teeny bit, and I say that as someone who isn't a dog person! I think all dogs should be closely monitored around children regardless of breed. I think you shouldn't make sweeping generalisations about staffies, it depends on how they are raised and trained and the dogs natural temperament in my opinion. I used to know someone with a staffie and she was a calm, placid dog who adored children. Conversely I know a couple with a Labrador that I wouldn't want a child to get too close to.

Just not keen on dogs generally OP. Plus my DS is autistic and scared of them but he tolerates my sister's dog (just about)

If we did get a dog it would be from a rescue and I can't say I wouldn't be tempted by an ignored Staffie who nobody else wanted but am a softy.

Can I ask the dog experts on here a genuine question please? I admit to having no experience whatsoever with Staffies...

I am wary of any dog around my DC, but particularly so if I see a Staffie (or similar looking dog) when we're out and about. Obviously that's partly because of their reputation, but also because to me they just look so strong and stocky (big strong jaw, etc) I can't help but think if they attacked they could inflict much more damage than the average random dog could. Is that not true?

I also struggle with why somebody not wanting a Staffie as a 'status' dog would want one, particularly if they have young children. Please don't flame me, it's a genuine question that I'm sure others wonder too. If I were considering having one, the fact that people would make negative assumptions about it would be enough to put me off.

Yes of course YABU, there really is no such thing as a bad dog. As a responsible dog owner, which I'll presume your sister will be, she will know not to leave dog & child alone together.
Any breed can bite, a Staffy isn't more likely to.
& yes there are plenty of classes for training, behavior etc.

I have seen a Staffie attack and it was terrifying - and it was attacking another dog - not a child! The Staffie in question was a dog I'd known for ages, seemed really placid and calm - a nice family pet.

The fact is that ANY dog - whatever the breed - however much you trust them, however long you've known them - IS capable of attacking in the wrong situation. Even if their visits are supervised, it only takes a split second. I'd had my dog, a Spoodle for 9 years, he was soft as anything. But when my one year old pulled his ear when they were playing, he snapped at her hand and punctured her finger. I was 2 feet away and watching and there was still nothing I could do to stop that. Turned out he actually had an ear infection so she had obviously actually hurt him, so you can't even really blame the dog - but you still can't take that risk with your chid.

The difference with a Staffie (and some other breeds) is that IF it flips and attacks you - it kills you. A Yorkie, a Jack Russell or a Chihahua might scar your face, but you certainly won't die!

Having witnessed a Staffie attack the sheer power in them is mind blowing.

Why would you risk that with your child? For what purpose? YANBU OP and I think people that own Staffie's when they have young children are mental tbh.

YABU. Like others have said, it's all about how the dog is treated/trained by it's owner.
I have a Japanese Akita, a Rhodesian Ridgeback (both typically "aggressive breeds" and very odd cat. We had the dogs from pups before DD was born, and they are fantastic with her. Both used to nuzzle my belly when I was pregnant, stand guard around the moses basket when dd was in it, and now she is on the move they are brilliant with her. She crawls up to them and kisses them! If she gets a bit too "in their face" or they've had enough, they bark at the baby gate and I let them in the kitchen to have some time alone.
Obviously I would still never leave DD alone with either dog.
Wait and see how your sister deals with the Staff, and go from there. Introduce your DC very slowly.

Because they are a lovely looking dog & also very loyal & affectionate.
We had an Akita for much the same reasons.

Umm a child could be killed by any dog, even a jack Russell

Yabu.

Well in my experience you are anyway.

We have always had staffies in the family. I grew up with two bitches that were absolutely soft around children, well around everyone actually.

My sisters male staffie sat still and received a haircut from dn which involved her chopping off the tip of her ear parenting and dog owning double fail in one there but still.

They are incredibly loyal and calm dogs if raised right. As long as your sister gets to view the mother and father and feels the puppy has a good temperament I can't see there being a problem.

I can assure it won't be lying in wait to snap up your child the second you step through her door

Children should never be left alone with any dog anyway, be it Great Dane or chihuahua so what exactly are you worried about?

Yeah....one thing that kinda puts me off is the pooh-poohing of any negativity about Staffies.

Its always turned into "oh well ALL dogs could do that".

Like as if the news stories about kids being maimed and killed are all part of a vast anti-Staffie conspiracy. That really doesn't help.

I don't know if their jaws don't really lock. All I've heard is they don't bloody let go. Its not as if incidents don't happen. Its not as if its made up.

I know other dogs can bite and cause scarring. But who has ever been killed by a cocker spaniel???

I've had dogs for over 30 yrs and thought very carefully about breeds as we got our first dog pre-children. We talked to our very experienced dog owning vet who gave us very good advice.

One of the things he pointed out was that all put breeds are effectively designer dogs - bred to do specific jobs in the past and their temperament and habits will be affected by that as well as by how they are brought up.

All terriers are descended from dogs bred to hunt and kill or subdue, they have a mouth conformation which generally includes powerful jaws and they hang on to things. Bull terriers are particularly tenacious in not giving up 'a prize'. Gun dogs OTOH are generally dogs that are bred for a soft mouth, they have to carry a bird or a rabbit gently and not harm it. They were bred to be friendly as they had to be able to work with other dogs and different people. Sweeping generalizations of course. I've had a retriever breed who hung on like grim death to something she'd found - but they tend not to shake and worry the things they catch hold of.

Yes all dogs can bite - but what they do with what's in their mouth once they have hold of it is the key IMO. Some instincts kick in that can have devastating consequences. A bite is serious, but when a dog hangs on and shakes a small child it would be devastating. Just google "Staffordshire bull terrier attacks" - beware the images are horrific, but these are more than bite wounds.

I think you are right to be cautious. There is a particular terrier breed I have always wanted but decided not to get one while I had small children around. It's now going to be my retirement dog once my current retriever dies.

YANBU

I also struggle with why somebody not wanting a Staffie as a 'status' dog would want one, particularly if they have young children. Please don't flame me, it's a genuine question that I'm sure others wonder too. If I were considering having one, the fact that people would make negative assumptions about it would be enough to put me off.

People with children often choose them at least partly because they are famous for being good with children.

Other peoples preconceptions and prejudices don't tend to worry me. When my staffie was alive, people very occasionally did veer away or cross the road. But she was so clearly a bundle of soppiness and loyalty and panting affection, that when that happened it just told me that those people were not dog people at all, couldn't 'read' her and were probably dog phobics. Dog people always loved her.

actually Cocker spaniels were a breed we were warned again by our vet 30 yrs ago - he had been putting to sleep a number of dogs affected by sudden rage syndrome - really a problem in the breed at that time, though I think breeders have improved the situation since as it was a genetic flaw.
www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/rage-syndrome-in-spaniels-and-other-dogs.html

one of his clients dogs had attacked the family toddler for no apparent reason, when he was in the kitchen with the mother so was not teasing the dog, the dog just turned on him . I'd really fancied a cocker spaniel too. years later one of my dds friends family had to get rid of their spaniel for that reason - it bit the youngest child.

The person that I know that got attacked by the springer & lab has scars on his legs and hands. They're bad scars.

A baby was killed by a jack Russell type not so long ago actually. I can think of a few different breeds of dogs that have been in the news for attacking children/people.

I don't think people are dismissing anything, it is pretty much a fact that any dog can 'potentially' turn and attack you or your child.

That's why you are always extra vigilant around ANY dogs with children and never leave them alone. In most of the stories of dog attacks when you read in to it the child has been left in a vulnerable position that they shouldn't have been.

All dog breeds can have negative sides. From my experience staffies are not to be wholly trusted around cats and on some occasions dogs. Mine were soft as anything with people, especially children but we're not fond of other furries.

They just don't, as a whole breed, deserve this child killer label they seemed to have acquired though.

(And anyone who thinks a staffie is a 'status dog' is a Neanderthal. There are many poor animals suffering to various degrees because of a minority of knuckleheaads. The knuckleheads are not dog lovers. Staffies get more love and sympathy from true dog lovers as a result.)

What is unreasonable is that people still buy dogs - maybe she'd like to visit Battersea, they have a whole building full of Staffies (who then move to "death row" after a while when they can not be homed as they are swamped with them). I was told this by someone who worked there with the dogs who eventually left as she could not cope with their refusal to not have a no kill policy.

I'm led to believe that staffies are no worse than any other dog, it all comes down to training.

They don't let go because of the shear muscle power in their Jaws

Anna you know I have a Staffie and she's fine with dd, but kids worry her so when we have friends round she goes away, she's quite happy tucked in my bedroom with her kong making a mess of my bed

YANBU to be worried about your sister getting a dog, I worry about dd with friends dogs and Infact I won't let my MIL take her to hers alone because of Their cocker spaniel who has bitten in the past. But you can't blame staffs. They get a mega bad press but so did Rottweilers and German shepards when they were the thug dog choice of the moment.

I don't think you can just pooh pooh all stories but some involve illegal breeds, some involve mastiffs etc. The fact is that any dog CAN be dangerous in the right circumstances.

These are my killer spaniels

The cocker rage thing has been largely bred out by responsible breeders.

That's the key I guess, carefully select a good breeder then put hours of groundwork in especially while the dog is young, to minimise the risk of any issues occuring.

Yeah....one thing that kinda puts me off is the pooh-poohing of any negativity about Staffies.

Its always turned into "oh well ALL dogs could do that".

Like as if the news stories about kids being maimed and killed are all part of a vast anti-Staffie conspiracy. That really doesn't help.

No, it's not quite that. It's not that ANY dog is equally likely to be vicious. It's that staffs truly don't deserve their rep.

And if you believe you can judge danger by breed, then you are not assessing the real danger which comes from personality and training.

As for the media, they love stories that fit their moral panics. Some villains and some victims sell better than others. It becomes self-perpetuating.

Have a look at; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

goodasitgets - my Staffy assumes the same pose, stares you dead in the eye and humps the floor.

Usually when we have company.

so strawberry are you saying that Staffies don't have a reputation as a 'status' dog? I agree that people having Staffies for that purpose are 'Neanderthal' but it begs the question of why they choose Staffies if they're really so 'soft' IMO.

I had a labrador x collie from 10 weeks old, flew through all his puppy classes. Knew both parents, brilliant temperaments. I ended up with a dog that I had to have put down at 3 years old after he mauled my German Shepard, attempted to kill my cat and bit two kids one on the lip and one on the hand ( while not in my care - this was the first incident and he was banned from the stables after that) I sent him for a full health test and X-ray as his change in behaviour was so extreme but they found nothing, he then mauled my vets arm causing him to have 17 stitches. I had him put down within the hour. There was no warning before these attacks. When he attacked my vet we were all just standing in reception talking with the nurses. Sometimes dogs are just wired wrong!

Then on the other hand I have my rescue Staffie. Dumped and beaten so hard she had a broken rib, covered in fag burns, fractured skull and all 5 of her puppies died before she could give birth to them. She crawled round on her belly she was so terrified of people. Now shes a pets as therapy dog and visits all sorts of places, competes in agility and is the best dog I could have asked for with dd. She is amazing. It really does depend on the dogs nature.

Gun dogs OTOH are generally dogs that are bred for a soft mouth, they have to carry a bird or a rabbit gently and not harm it

That is behavioural though. It doesn't mean they aren't capable of biting hard if they need to.

My lab has a very gentle mouth. If you give her a raw egg, she will carry it in her mouth without breaking it.

But give her and the staffie a tuggy rope, and they'll take an end each, and the lab will drag the staffie around the tiled floor. She has just as strong a mouth and jaw.

My staffie wouldn't carry a raw egg around, but I can put a treat in my mouth and she will take it ever so gently without even touching my skin. She is just as capable as being soft mouthed when she knows she has to be.

The only time either of my dogs has nipped anyone was when my DB was holding a toy in the air and getting the dogs to jump in the air to take it out of his hand. The staffie mis-judged it slightly and grabbed his finger with the toy.
Putting aside that it was bloody stupid game to be playing in the first place, the second she realised she had made contact with skin, she let go, then rolled onto her back to say sorry. Then spent the rest of the afternoon with her head on his knee, and refused to play with the toy again because she was too busy giving him 'sorry' eyes