To feel it is high time that Israel/Palestinian issue got resolved?

[SippyDippy]

conflict us starting up again. I cannot bear another round of children being killed indiscriminately. The super powers would have you believe that it is all oh so very complicated. its not though is it. It is so bloody unfair how those children will keep dying if the status quo is maintained. Something needs to change.

Sticks your Scotland analogy only works if you say 'occupying Scotland illegally' not 'living in England'. The people living in isreal do military service, theyre not just minding their own theyre part of the system that oppresses. Isreal are an occupying force and Palestinians have a right to defend against that.

sticks2 obviously defends a myth that right-wing Israelis aren't intent to expand to the west bank. (displacing more indigenous people).
They are just going about their lives happy with what they already have.

.

pepper

Settlements exist in the west bank, East Jerusalem and Golan heights.

The west bank, East Jerusalem was not Palestinian - it was ruled by Jordan until the six day war - only now do the Palestinians claim it, they had no problem being ruled by Jordan.

The Golan heights were Syrian.

Basically Israel is building settlements in land that has only been claimed by the Palestinians since Israel claimed them. They made no claim to them previously.

Hampster What land is Israel 'occupying'. Unless the UN mandate of 1948 was wrong, they have not occupied any Palestinian land.

Wow so denying land theft...that's a new low..Denying people are physically removed from their homes so Israelis can move in.

You know there are people out there who deny the holocaust too.

And these threads do nothing but entrench each sides strong biased views for each side , by using inaccurate claims to back up your point of view.

"Israel will aways have cover. They perpetrate heinous war crimes against the Palestinians, who naturally make attempts at a reasonable defence. Their paltry stockpile of inferior weapons (like rocks) will always serve as a pretext for more war crimes."

What like spending millions on rockets, arms and concrete to shore up their miles and miles of tunnels? You think these rockets have no effect on Israelis and their children?

"Of course the Palestinians are suffering and most Israelis and Jews are appalled by it but there's no hatred for Palestinians. "

Not appalled enough and of course there is a lot of hatred of Palestinians - not from everyone but it is there for many and many have dehumanised them - I guess they have to, to be able to carry as they do.

Why can't people see it's a vicious circle? Neither side is blameless and hysterically making shit up and pointing the finger at one side saying they are evil and the other side is good just spurs the hate on. Israel has the power and has to take the responsibility of having that power and can't hide behind defending it's citizens to do whatever it wants. Palestinians have not made good choices but are holding out for something they won't achieve or get. You think the Palestinains wouldn't be ruthless if the shoe was on the other foot? Both sides are just too busy hating and totally blaming the other side without taking any resonsibilty for their own failings. Yip, vicious circle.

People have to stop saying one or other side are just innocent victims of the other or they will stay entrenched in their martyr complex.

The usual 'there never was a palestine or a Palestinian people'.
Willful ignorance carol, that massive great Wall four times higher and twice as long as the Berlin Wall is over the green line.
Isreal hasn't claimed it either as they refuse to declare internationally recognised borders.
They need to recede to the green line.

What like spending millions on rockets, arms and concrete to shore up their miles and miles of tunnels? You think these rockets have no effect on Israelis and their children?

Get a grip. Israel has a far superior arsenal, one of its many perks as a US client state. There are 20 Palestinian children killed for every one Israeli child. Maybe you'd prefer that it were 100:1 or 1000:1? Give us your target.

Sticks2. I agree with every single word you say and don't have the ability to put it so clearly.

Read enough articles with comments on the issue and threads like these dreadingautumn you will soon learn all the hasbara spiel for yourself.
They started it.
It's self defence
They voted for hamas
Hamas don't hold elections isreal do
What about China?

We like gays
They hide weapons jn schools
It's so dangerous we have to defend ourselves.
French Jews welcome it's safer than Paris.
There never was a palestine.
What if Scotland started firing rockets at England?
They started it
What about china

You know there are people out there who deny the holocaust too. Hamas, for example.

Just sayin'.

You know there are people out there who deny the holocaust too. Hamas, for example.

For context, I'm interested. Are there Native American Holocaust deniers?

I suppose there aren't, mostly because no one ever talks about the Native American Holocaust in the first place. It's almost like it never happened. Same for the African holocaust.

Ellyhigginbottom - I find it hard to take someone's views seriously when they make statements like that all they have and use are rocks - because it's just not true. But it sounds good and is very emotive. That kind of will full twisting of the facts helps nothing. The facts are bad enough without twisting them.

The facts are bad enough without twisting them - couldn't agree more what a sorry bloody mess all round, hope against hope that this will be resolved in my ds s lifetime if not my own.

For context, I'm interested. Are there Native American Holocaust deniers?

Nah, nobody gives a monkey's. Same with the Porrajmos, or the mass extermination of gays, Jehovah's Witnesses and Esperanto speakers. Either there's no land at stake, or the facts are already on the ground.

I just think it is so sad that things have actually went backwards instead of forwards. Both groups voting in hate filled leaders who would happily wipe The other side out.

I am fed up of hearing about how palestinians wants to wipe out isreal. It seems that isreal is doing a brilliant job of wiping out the Palestinians. As for the poster who said that palestinians have a great quality of life, would you swap yours for their great life?

Isreal restricts the gazans calorie intake. It seems to enjoy and revel in their misery. The latest unrest didnt just occur out of the blue. It is as a direct result of the inhumane treatment meted out by isreal over decades. What choice has isreal left the ordinary palestinian with?

Does israel really think it can live in security whilst it treats a whole occupied nation like a non-human entity. For all its fire power, might and killing civillians, isreal has not been able to offer its citizens the one thing they crave - security. Why is israel worthy of security when palestinians are afforded no such thing? Is israeli jewish life more precious than a palestinian arab life? The status quo will never be accepted by the palestinians - it is a death sentence for them. A slow death. A life void of hope. Maintaining this status quo seems to be israel's utmost priority. No decnt human being can support isreal's treatment of the Palestinians.

No-one has said what are the boundaries of a Palestinian state?
If you accept the 1947 UN mandate than any non-Israeli land was taken by surrounding powers (Jordan, Syria and Egypt). If you deny the 1947 settlement then Israel does not exist and the Jews do not have a homeland.
Either of these positions is tenable, but you cannot have an Israel and also a Palestine.

Sippydippy - there are no restrictions on food for Gazans, or medicines for that matter. Your calorie intake point is just wrong.

The only restrictions on Gazans imports are weapons and dual use materials. Egypt, which also has a crossing with Gaza,has much stricter rules, but strangely never gets criticized for this. If Hamas didn't support ISIS affiliates in the Sinai the Egyptians might be a bit more sympathetic, of course.

They was in fact a calorie calculation done by the Israelis during the blockade, there are quite a lot of reports from 2012. They calculated the exact amount needed to avoid malnutrition and let that in, no more.

I've just read some eyewitness reports, whether one believes them or not will depend on your views I suspect, a 15 year old girl in school uniform, Marah Bakri, was shot dead. Israelis saying she was a knife attacker. Eye witness reports however say she was harassed by settlers at a bus stop, one of whom then threw a knife on the ground next to her and shouted "attacker", whereupon she was shot.
As I said, I'm not telling anyone else what to believe, I'm just passing this on.
Here is a youtube video of her killing. I haven't watched it myself as I would find it too distressing, but if anyone can stomach it and wants to make their own mind up, it's there.

So you don't believe in the 2 state solution carol? If all the land is isreal they will have to give Arabs rights, so the Jewish homeland won't exist, Jews will become the minority. Unless you do actually want to keep up the slaughter until there are no more Palestinians?? It may look like isreal will get away with it at the moment, but the tide is turning and the world won't stand by and let all Palestinians be shot bombed or frozen to death. That can't happen.
I believe in a 2 state solution, isreal behind the green line and palestine in what's left. Build your big wall on the green line.
All isreal is doing by making two states less likely is ensuring it's own destruction as a Jewish state.

Wow Caroldecker - so all those United Nations resolutions are wrong then, and the Israelis have not stolen and colonised any Palestinian land at all. What a weird little Zionist, Israeli supremacist world you live in. It's easy for you to dehumanise the Palestinians I see. Reminds me of how the Nazis dehumanised the Jews.

Hampsterdam - a 2 state solution like you described sounds like the only viable solution.

Israel is now sealing off the Arab parts of Jerusalem. interesting how they never seal off terrorist settler areas. Because only muslims are terrorists. So angry at all the injustice they face day in day out.

When Hamas support children's TV shows like this it is hard to see how the hate and conflict will ever end. I'm sure some Israeli children also grow up with blind hate for Palestinians. The hate is understandable, especially from the Palestininians but if the children from both sides are being taught to hate from such young ages where will it end.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=57Q8K5TmivM